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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#471

Post by simonh »

gonehome wrote: post #403
Humdeee wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the comment that lost me. I'm sorry, how should more of the pie go to Spotify here using that argument? Apple 'made their money' on the hardware, therefore Spotify is entitled to a larger ratio on the software? Is that the correct interpretation? Edit: I'll take your downvote as being it was the correct interpretation. It's okay, I didn't expect a reply.

Assuming you’re asking in good faith - Apple sells the hardware, they don’t make the software of other company’s apps. They force companies to ship through their store, I think that is okay because it enables them to enforce quality standards for users. I think it’s wrong for them to force this distribution model and then take a cut from every software company. In the Spotify case Apple forces them to pay a tax and t…

When Apple created the iOS SDK and opened the App Store did they increase or decrease developer freedom?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#472

Post by bhelkey »

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #286
bhelkey wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Searching for mandatory and required turned up Hong Kong (required the app for entering restaurants) and Qatar (mandated when leaving the house). I don't think this is what OP was refering to.

Please search instead by 'COVID app mandatory for'; depending upon your location the results might vary i.e. if you are from one of those countries then all the search results in the front page would be about just your country and where as if you are not then you will get different countries/states which has mandated COVID app for some service. If the former is true for you, it didn't mean I meant your country alone…

> Please search instead by 'COVID app mandatory for';

In case I can save anyone else the time I spent, I initially read this as op saying that I should search for the phrase 'COVID app mandatory for' in one of the two articles op previously linked [1][2]. This phrase does not show up in either link.

I believe op is suggesting that I google this phrase but I think I already have spent too much time on this.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_apps#List_of_countrie...

[2] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/09/covid-19-tracking-tech...

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#473

Post by sichtlinkair »

fragileone wrote: post #395
sichtlinkair wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting perspective > The core is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself though I think this is a bit exaggerated, no? AOSP gave me a perfectly fine, modern Android 10 experience

Not everything translated over exactly well from the original GNU/Linux copypasta, but I do agree here. I've tested using microG in order to gain some functionality which is missing on pure AOSP builds (eg push notifications) and even with their FOSS minimal implementation of Google Play Services there's still subpar functionality like being unable to use many apps with integrated maps (Uber, Tinder, Google Maps). Av…

Aha, totally missed the copypasta

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#474

Post by CRConrad »

yossarian1408 wrote: post #131
echelon wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I don't understand this argument at all. You're almost certainly taking more risk driving in a car than downloading an app, yet you're probably willing to embr…

You don't have to do business on the App store. You don't have to launch a startup on the App store. You can buy any device you want, and if there isn't currently one sold that meets your specific criterion, society might be better off if someone takes the initiative to meet this demand rather than force a company to roll out the red carpet for it's competition. Your liberty is not at stake here, nor any real detrime…

> You don't have to do business on the App store. You don't have to launch a startup on the App store.

You don't have to drive on the highway either, so I assume you're fine with having that freedom removed too.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#475

Post by CRConrad »

yossarian1408 wrote: post #467
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want freedom from Apple controlling iPhone that is now my property. Where is my liberty?

Liberty does not mean freedom. Actually, the positive freedom you want for would come at cost of the negative liberties of other individuals. And an iPhone being your property does not change the properties of the iPhone you bought. You can tinker with it as much as your ability allows you to, but if you are not happy with the limitations of the device than you should not have bought that device.

> Liberty does not mean freedom.

Actually that's literally exactly what it means.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#476

Post by CRConrad »

havernator wrote: post #193
Barrin92 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but why exactly do you want other users to be deprived of software choice on iOS? Like how is that enhancing your experience? I get that people want to use Apple only software, in which case I'd understand why they don't want other software on the Apple Store, but how the hell is your experience worse if there is another store available on the phone? Just never use it? It's like as if Microsoft locked down Win…

Apple can no longer force vendors who want access to iOS to play by the rules that I want them to be forced to play by, is the main risk of adding more stores. I bought iOS devices in part for the effects of that leverage—I chose that. It's also a choice.

So only install apps from the Apple App Store then. How do other app stores where developers aren't forced to play by those Apple rules affect you then?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#477

Post by CRConrad »

tracer4201 wrote: post #235
zmmmmm wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the problem is you are presenting a false dichotomy: > if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device Who is proposing that? Nobody.

The post I responded to explicitly wrote about alternative app stores. What’s the main purpose of that other than getting rid of apples regulations?

Where did they write that they were going to force you (or anyone else) to download stuff from these alternative app stores?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#478

Post by PoignardAzur »

shawnz wrote: post #238
gonehome wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when they start leveraging their power to hurt their customers rather than to benefit them? That’s when they’re actually in violation of monopoly and consumer protection laws. Consumer harm is part of it.

I don't mean a situation like that. What if you just disagree about the best way to achieve the ideal ecosystem? Surely not every customer has the same opinion. Like for example, consider their restrictions on third-party browser engines, JITs, etc. Are you happy about all those choices too?

I don't own an IPhone, so I can't say I'm happy or not about these choices, but at the very least they're not trivially wrong.

Forcing the ecosystem to use shared libs for common, expensive taks like browser engines, JITs, etc, has clear benefits in terms of storage and battery life.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#479

Post by PoignardAzur »

bogwog wrote: post #188
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

This is a bad take. Google is just as guilty of anti-competitive behavior as Apple. Sure, a third party store can exist in the Android ecosystem, but what are the chances that it can be commercially viable? It's practically impossible. * Google shows countless scary warning dialogs to users who even think about installing a third party store. Any competitor trying to run an alternative store needs to somehow educate…

> * Google has a full time hit squad of penetration testers called "Project Zero" which goes around checking competitors for vulnerabilities so they can make big scary press releases about how unsafe the competition is (even though Google Play itself is riddled with malware).

Wow. That is incredibly uncharitable, bordering on slander.

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