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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#231

Post by hugi »

roody15 wrote: post #161
hugi wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is naive to think that any company at that scale has your best interests at heart. They will do whatever it takes to make more money, period. Exactly. And Apple makes money of privacy. It's their thing. Google's business model is based on abusing my privacy. Apple's business model is based on securing my privacy. That's why I use Apple stuff and won't touch Google with a 10 feet pole.

Privacy from whom? Apple fully complies with all law enforcement requests and turns over all icloud data from a valid warrant. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin... Some it seems thinks Apple keeps data private and anonymous. In fact they do the opposite and encourage using an icloud account over and over (after ever update). All of this data is easily acquired via a warrant at any law enfor…

Are you seriously equating a legal warrant with the realtime harvesting of user data by applications (such as Google/Facebook and others)?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#232

Post by oscargrouch »

tmarsden wrote: post #14

It’s a shame we are reliant on (2) app stores. It would be nice if there was a way to safely implement browser plug-ins that would bring some of the functionality offered by native apps. Not sure if WASM/WASI might save the day here eventually, but the path we’re on now is looking pretty grim if the status quo wins out.

While phone apps fall into the app store trap, browser are also falling into the cloud trap.

Its not enough to run applications on the browser, you need to fix some of the things that make browsers weak giving we need to let go all the information to cloud providers who will then monetize on it somehow.

Years ago i've put myself into this path to build something that could help a little bit on this. I hope this can cover some ground as the future looks bad for everyone else who is not part of the big tech paradise, as outside of it, everything is being sucked by a big straw and dying a long, slow and painful death..

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#233

Post by fredophile »

havernator wrote: post #197
fredophile wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what you mean about customers paying a premium today? I don't think any apps that are on iOS and other platforms charge more for iOS. I also don't believe an iPhone costs more than a similarly high end Android phone. Where's the premium?

Some definitely do charge more for e.g. subscriptions on iOS than they do if you go through their website. They can't advertise the website option in their app , but it can exist. Last time I made that mistake the site's subscription management interface was rather... uh, minimum viable product. Switching to paying the Apple premium was well worth it.

Thanks for that info. I wasn't aware that apps were allowed to charge more for subscriptions via iOS. I thought their only options in this regard was to not offer in app subscriptions at all.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#234

Post by gonehome »

shawnz wrote: post #229
gonehome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

Their choices have been a net benefit for you so far, but what if in future they implement restrictions that you don't like? It would be difficult to change platforms over it.

What happens when they start leveraging their power to hurt their customers rather than to benefit them?

That’s when they’re actually in violation of monopoly and consumer protection laws. Consumer harm is part of it.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#235

Post by tracer4201 »

zmmmmm wrote: post #210
tracer4201 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically buy Apple products because I trust their App Store. I trust Apple with my information. I’m counting on these guys to get out software I download from the App Store. And I trust them to protect my privacy, better than anyone else. You’re calling them anti consumer. But that’s wrong. This is why I give them my business, and if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device, I…

the problem is you are presenting a false dichotomy: > if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device Who is proposing that? Nobody.

The post I responded to explicitly wrote about alternative app stores. What’s the main purpose of that other than getting rid of apples regulations?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#236

Post by tracer4201 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #52
tracer4201 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically buy Apple products because I trust their App Store. I trust Apple with my information. I’m counting on these guys to get out software I download from the App Store. And I trust them to protect my privacy, better than anyone else. You’re calling them anti consumer. But that’s wrong. This is why I give them my business, and if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device, I…

I seek this asinine take everywhere around here. Opening these platforms doesn't kill them, it forces them to compete.

Yes, you know better than me and my opinion is stupid and foolish. Your post doesn’t really offer than alternative take. All you did is bully me and engage in cyber harassment.

When your immediate response is to have an emotional outburst and tell people they’re stupid, it actually shows you lack intelligence.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#237

Post by ngokevin »

gonehome wrote: post #54
Elidrake24 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

It's 15% now for most developers, right?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#238

Post by shawnz »

gonehome wrote: post #234
shawnz wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their choices have been a net benefit for you so far, but what if in future they implement restrictions that you don't like? It would be difficult to change platforms over it.

What happens when they start leveraging their power to hurt their customers rather than to benefit them? That’s when they’re actually in violation of monopoly and consumer protection laws. Consumer harm is part of it.

I don't mean a situation like that. What if you just disagree about the best way to achieve the ideal ecosystem? Surely not every customer has the same opinion.

Like for example, consider their restrictions on third-party browser engines, JITs, etc. Are you happy about all those choices too?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#239

Post by pentae »

simonh wrote: post #118
gonehome wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

Subscription services like Spotify only pay 30% for the first year of each subscription. After that they pay 15% and this has been the case since 2016. Apple has done a lot to revise the App Store charging policy over the last few years, and I think they deserve credit for that. Also their hosting of free apps for only a nominal developer registration fee is a huge boon to users and a lot of iOS developers. So I don’…

When the average subscription to just about any online service is 3.3 months, the 15% after 12 months is simply PR. Nothing more. Apple crunched their numbers and knows exactly what they are doing. What's more amazing is that everyone, including you, has fallen for it.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#240

Post by joshuamorton »

colinmhayes wrote: post #138
joshuamorton wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exactly. And Apple makes money of privacy. It's their thing. Apple makes money by (among other things) appealing to a certain set of privacy conscious consumers. That's different than "making money off of privacy".

only if you think consumers are idiots.

https://twitter.com/Carnage4Life/status/1387153977620451336

I think that Apple is often deceptive about the degree to which they themselves track users and store user data. I think its simultaneously true that Apple stores less information about [advertising] users that Google does, but is less straightforward about the information it does track, and keeps more than the average Apple user thinks.

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