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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#161

Post by roody15 »

hugi wrote: post #47
paxys wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is possible for a company to do multiple things, sometimes even conflicting with each other. Google is an ad company, and a hardware/smartphone company, and an enterprise collaboration company, and a cloud hosting company, and lots more. Similarly Apple is a hardware company which is getting more and more of its revenue from digital sales, subscriptions and even advertising every year. They can and do track their…

> It is naive to think that any company at that scale has your best interests at heart. They will do whatever it takes to make more money, period. Exactly. And Apple makes money of privacy. It's their thing. Google's business model is based on abusing my privacy. Apple's business model is based on securing my privacy. That's why I use Apple stuff and won't touch Google with a 10 feet pole.

Privacy from whom? Apple fully complies with all law enforcement requests and turns over all icloud data from a valid warrant.

https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/law-enforcement-guidelin...

Some it seems thinks Apple keeps data private and anonymous. In fact they do the opposite and encourage using an icloud account over and over (after ever update). All of this data is easily acquired via a warrant at any law enforcement level.

A county cop (without a college degree) investigating his neighbor can get all this info simply submitting a scanned PDF of a warrant from a county judge.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#162

Post by FpUser »

gonehome wrote: post #140
FpUser wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage" Most likely it is in the interest of majority of consumers conditioned to this type of control. I realize that it is a benefit for older computer illiterate people. It completely sucks for people like myself. >"10 different game distributors all with their own shitty incentives" That's one classy way of describing business approach. Yes they're…

> "I realize that it is a benefit for older computer illiterate people." It's a benefit for computer literate people too. - IAP allows easy tracking of subscriptions and cancellation. You don't have to call and argue with a retentions rep for an hour to cancel a service. - Apple restrictions on tracking limit abuse from ad driven business models. - Apple can require features like Apple ID to be implemented alongside…

>"It's a benefit for computer literate people too."

Sure, maybe. I do not care as I personally do not feel any benefit. I am most likely in minority but that does not mean I have to tailor my opinions.

Not even really criticizing Apple / Google. I want my phone to be able to function as normal Windows / Linux PC except that its phone capability would be able to function even if the rest of the OS is crashed. Such product simply does not exist outside of half baked attempts and I am not willing to waste my time/money on those.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#163

Post by Wolfenstein98k »

thombles wrote: post #120

Incidentally, if you have a business registered for GST in Australia you have to submit a quarterly activity statement. The tax office website had bizarre authentication requirements but the browser plugin was at least cross-platform. They now require you to use the myGovID app, which is - you guessed it - available only on the App Store and Play Store. You can't even run a business without being part of the duopoly.…

As per that site, you can still deal directly with the govt and avoid MyGovID.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#164

Post by meepmorp »

hu3 wrote: post #147
meepmorp wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://blog.elcomsoft.com/2021/01/apple-fbi-and-iphone-back...

"The encryption keys are stored at Apple’ own servers" Thanks for confirming that there's no privacy in iCloud.

You should actually read the article, perhaps after first setting down the axe you're grinding. The details are interesting, and they discuss the Reuters piece you linked to.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#165

Post by thefourthchime »

bern4444 wrote: post #159
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

I view this in a different light. We have two options for platforms, one for each idea. One idea being a platform that allows for third party app stores (android) and another platform that does not (apple). We already have a choice, between these ideas, some prefer one over the other. I personally prefer the platform that is better integrated, designed, and backed by the company already making the hardware and softwa…

I think it’s a bit of a false argument. The walls to entry are high.

Thanks think if users had to enable “unsafe” apps on the App Store than that would be fair. The whole “Benefit” from these walled gardens was that they would have some validation.

In reality their walls are revenue funnels.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#166

Post by shawnz »

simondotau wrote: post #158
shawnz wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be inconvenient and even impossible to migrate some things (for example contacts, iMessage history, app data). Espcially consider how difficult it would be for a novice user to migrate. And what are those other choices? Presumably you are not considering Android devices.

It's not Apple's fault if Android devices aren't suitable alternatives.

Of course not. But the limited selection of alternatives certainly adds to the pain of switching platforms. Therefore it's not so simple to "just buy another phone".

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#167

Post by camhart »

wluu wrote: post #91
encryptluks2 wrote: post #23

You can have third-party Android app stores. Can you say the same about Apple? While I agree that Google has market-dominance, they are not anti-competition or anti-consumer in the same sense as Apple. Android is open source, Chrome OS is open source, etc. Google is actually providing and contributing something back to the community. Apple intentionally locks people to specific hardware and to their app store.

There's AltStore, but it's obviously not as straightforward as the Apple one. https://altstore.io/ Came across it while following the development and distribution of iSH ( https://ish.app/ ), which has now made it into the main app store. Prior to publishing to AltStore, iSH was only available on Test Flight, which has a limitation on the number of users who can join (10,000). So they'd periodically have to kick inac…

AltStore requires a software developer to set it up and use it. Not anywhere close for non-tech people, let alone elderly.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#168

Post by simondotau »

fredophile wrote: post #139
havernator wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could fragment the Apple software ecosystem. Since a non-fragmented ecosystem is what I want, I don't like that. Add more stores and my choice to buy into a unified platform is at risk.

Why is fragmentation a problem? There's already fragmentation of the smartphone software ecosystem. How is an app that ships on iOS but not the apple store any different to you than an app that doesn't ship on iOS at all? Either way if you choose to only buy apps through apple you can't get it.

Fragmentation means that many apps I want would no longer be available through a vendor that I trust. No, that trust isn't blind or absolute. Yes, I recognise that Apple's review process is patchy at best—but most developers also fear getting on the wrong side of them and THAT alone has been pretty damn effective at keeping most apps under control.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#169

Post by havernator »

fredophile wrote: post #139
havernator wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could fragment the Apple software ecosystem. Since a non-fragmented ecosystem is what I want, I don't like that. Add more stores and my choice to buy into a unified platform is at risk.

Why is fragmentation a problem? There's already fragmentation of the smartphone software ecosystem. How is an app that ships on iOS but not the apple store any different to you than an app that doesn't ship on iOS at all? Either way if you choose to only buy apps through apple you can't get it.

Some apps that would choose to be in the App Store if they had to, would instead use an alternative store. Some apps that wouldn't otherwise exist on iOS, would exist on alternative stores. I'd rather sacrifice that second category to ensure that the first category has to be released on the App Store. If I change my mind, I'll get an Android device. I knew what I was getting into when I bought Apple.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#170

Post by fredophile »

simondotau wrote: post #154
fredophile wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be willing to pay a premium for that? What if Apple allowed other stores and simultaneously allowed apps to sell things for more on their store than they charge on other stores? Then an app maker could release on both and charge more to account for Apple's cut and any extra expenses they have releasing on their store.

> Would you be willing to pay a premium for that? That's literally what millions of customers do, whether they do so explicitly or not.

Could you explain what you mean about customers paying a premium today? I don't think any apps that are on iOS and other platforms charge more for iOS. I also don't believe an iPhone costs more than a similarly high end Android phone. Where's the premium?
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