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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

accc.gov.au

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#461

Post by havernator »

gonehome wrote: post #427
shawnz wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think they were making any kind of claim about Apple's "special sauce", only that Apple has a monopoly on high-end hardware, which is true.

It is a little weird though. - Apple has built a world wide empire selling these products in this way people seem to like - As a result Apple has funneled that money and made world class hardware that's better than everyone else and leads in security/privacy - Therefore we should force them to break their model because the others that didn't follow suit have hardware that sucks That's not the most charitable interpre…

Don’t forget: “I want to go from two models of mobile OS ecosystem to one, in the name of choice and freedom”

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#462

Post by dmak »

edrxty wrote: post #74
parasubvert wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not incompetence or “reduced mental faculties”, or even removing free will. It’s that we don’t want iOS to be like any other computer system - the simplicity and lack of choice is a feature, not a bug.

Some people need more functionality than iOS and its associated apps provide to do their jobs (ie embedded development/testing) among other things. Sure, "just go to Android/whatever" but Apple is quickly gaining a monopoly on not-shitty hardware and the combination of these two things is not ok by any stretch of the imagination. Apple could provide the option of unlocking the bootloader and providing some driver cod…

> Apple could provide the option of unlocking the bootloader and providing some driver code for their peripherals so we could make our own system, but they don't and that fact suggests there's a more sinister objective to this game. They exist to make as much money through their app store as possible and will not give up any control.

Why is it that people argue for changing Apple instead of just using other competing devices?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#463

Post by jbverschoor »

lacksconfidence wrote: post #439
jbverschoor wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple was a big contributor to webkit waay before Chrome even existed. I don't really understand the love for Android (and sometimes Google) and hate for Apple. The first versions of Android were a clone of blackberry until Apple unveiled the iPhone.

> I don't really understand the love for Android (and sometimes Google) and hate for Apple The reasons are all over this discussion, just spend some time reading it. My takeaway might be that some people value autonomy and ownership, and feel like Android gives them more of that.

I did. Misinformation in too many posts

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#464

Post by partomniscient »

stephen_g wrote: post #282
partomniscient wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're living in a time where if you don't have a mobile phone you can't complete the online form and therefore the transaction becomes impossible. This is even worse if you're on the phone and the person on the other end of the phone that works for the company is the one filling in the digital form. The fact that its now further embedded in an app. owned by international conglomerates is hardly suprising. They're slo…

I think the ACCC actually hasn't been that great for a while, unfortunately. We have awesome consumer protection, but they've made serious missteps more recently, especially under their current commissioner, Rod Simms. They made a terrible ruling forcing the NBN to have 121 points of interconnect (basically peering POPs) back in 2009 (originally, NBN Co wanted to have 14), to protect the seven or so long-distance fib…

At least there's still a bunch trying to do the right thing by the people as a whole rather than the people currently in charge. I agree the ACCC has been a little hit and miss lately, but its one of the few good things we still have. I'm really hoping they leave medicare alone as much as possible.

Then again, somehow Newscorp got their way vs. facebook/google - only fair the ACCC does too.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#465

Post by skeletonjelly »

killingtime74 wrote: post #20
ent101 wrote: post #6

I feel like we keep getting these inquiries/lawsuits/press releases every year but, literally, nothing gets any better at all. Every developer KNOWS that Google is extremely abusive towards them solely because of their position in the market yet nothing ever improves. If these are not illegal monopolies, what is?!

Do you live in Australia?

Important question! ACCC have quite the powers here that I see lacking in say the US

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#466

Post by marticode »

hugi wrote: post #35
diogenesjunior wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm happy to use an iPhone, knowing my personal information is safe and it reduces my chances of being Harvested by Google LOL. Instead of bowing down to one master, you chose to bow down to the other?

I choose to spend my money on devices from a company that's explicitly and repeatedly stated that their mission is privacy. But if you choose to buy phones from ad companies, it's your decision.

You don't really buy an Apple phone. You give them money and then they decide what software can, will or will not run on the device they hand you down.

Apple owns your phone.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#467

Post by yossarian1408 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #446
yossarian1408 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except there are no negative rights being infringed upon here. You can hardly appeal to natural law for the right to publish what you want on someone else's platform. Liberty is defined as being 'free from', not 'free to'. > We've seen examples in China of Apple blocking apps that literally lead to people failing to escape authoritarian governments and them disappearing, quite possibly to their death. This seems very…

I want freedom from Apple controlling iPhone that is now my property. Where is my liberty?

Liberty does not mean freedom. Actually, the positive freedom you want for would come at cost of the negative liberties of other individuals.

And an iPhone being your property does not change the properties of the iPhone you bought. You can tinker with it as much as your ability allows you to, but if you are not happy with the limitations of the device than you should not have bought that device.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#468

Post by parasubvert »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #383
parasubvert wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not asinine just because you disagree. They already are competing. There is Android, and there is iOS. Apple certainly could be hemmed in on clear areas of conflict like Spotify. Opening the platform is not traditional antitrust because consumers like it this way - it’s more about charity for the competition.

I think it's asinine. Fragmentation: If Apple competes well there won't be any because their app store will be the best on merit not at gunpoint. Safety: Don't sideload or install unsigned apps. Keep your phone up to date. This doesn't change much except possibly give you the option to be unsafe. Payment processing: We already see integration with Cash app, Google wallet, Apple pay, Stripe, PayPal, etc. This is not a…

Gunpoint? This is rich from a bunch of tinkerers and competitors that literally want the people with guns to force Apple to change its platform because competing with them is too hard, and Android sucks so badly as an alternative. Consumers certainly aren’t making these arguments.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#469

Post by partomniscient »

account42 wrote: post #355
hyperman1 wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The horrible hold music/talk experience where they tell you how wonderful everything is just makes me loathe to attempt it again. It did exactly what it was supposed to do: lower their costs by making it your instead of their problem.

Except now people like me will refuse to use phone support and email/mail/tweet their PR/CEO/whoever to resolve the issue, which are all likely more expensive than proper support staff.

Yeah, this works. You feel kind of bad, but you value your time in helping them fix whatever problem you have using their product/service.

Sometimes I've known exactly what the problem is and don't want to jump through the hoops of level 1 help to get to level 2 to get to level 3 which can take hours but can be mitigated by outlining the problem in a public forum you know they have reps montoring, and its resolved in minutes. You can still achieve this reasonably politely and thank them afterwards and its actually a good outcome for both parties.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#470

Post by echelon »

yossarian1408 wrote: post #467
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want freedom from Apple controlling iPhone that is now my property. Where is my liberty?

Liberty does not mean freedom. Actually, the positive freedom you want for would come at cost of the negative liberties of other individuals. And an iPhone being your property does not change the properties of the iPhone you bought. You can tinker with it as much as your ability allows you to, but if you are not happy with the limitations of the device than you should not have bought that device.

That device is causing rippling negative externalities across our industry.

It's gone beyond your choice or my choice - Apple is gravitationally distorting the entire industry and bending it to its will.

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