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Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

accc.gov.au

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Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#71

Post by parasubvert »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #63
edrxty wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same logic we should just eliminate free will because it's dangerous sometimes. I hate these arguments as it is allowing incompetence to drive innovation. There are plenty of other options whereby 3rd party apps/app stores could be installed safely, just like on any other computer system. If you need to give someone with diminished mental faculties a locked down device, that can be made explicit.

Exactly. I don't understand the argument Apple users are presenting. Its like they can't comprehend that they can have an option to install third-party apps but they don't have to enable or use that if they like being "protected" from hurting themselves.

There is comprehension. But many just don’t want it because it over complicates the experience.

It really isn’t that hard to understand: many Apple users value a certain set of design and simplicity criteria over other factors.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#72

Post by subroutine »

SilverRed wrote: post #18
kaiju0 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep it neatly organizes everything with subscriptions and vetted apps into a single location. Can't ask for more. The only people that want out of it is people who want a bigger rev cut, to bypass app store rules and infect devices.

> people who want a bigger rev cut This is not unreasonable. Apps like netfix and spotify can not possibly pay the Apple cut and stay competitive with apples own services which pay nothing. Not a single user is going to pay 30% extra to listen to the same music.

Do netflix and spotify currently pay apple 30%?

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#73

Post by [deleted] »

gonehome wrote: post #54
Elidrake24 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a user of iOS, this is precisely why I go with Apple, and why I push my family to do the same. Particularly for the more elderly in my family, Apple's setup (by and large) prevents them from doing anything that would screw themselves over. Removing Apple's control removes my desire to be apart of that ecosystem, and I know that is true for many others outside our insular little community here.

I agree - Apple needs the control to have the leverage that makes their ecosystem better. It's in the interest of their customers for them to have this leverage and it requires that their 'store' is the only available store so app devs can't bypass their requirements. I like Apple forcing use of in-app-payments, I like Apple giving me subscription control to make canceling easy. I like Apple blocking app tracking and…

[deleted]

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#74

Post by edrxty »

parasubvert wrote: post #67
edrxty wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same logic we should just eliminate free will because it's dangerous sometimes. I hate these arguments as it is allowing incompetence to drive innovation. There are plenty of other options whereby 3rd party apps/app stores could be installed safely, just like on any other computer system. If you need to give someone with diminished mental faculties a locked down device, that can be made explicit.

It’s not incompetence or “reduced mental faculties”, or even removing free will. It’s that we don’t want iOS to be like any other computer system - the simplicity and lack of choice is a feature, not a bug.

Some people need more functionality than iOS and its associated apps provide to do their jobs (ie embedded development/testing) among other things. Sure, "just go to Android/whatever" but Apple is quickly gaining a monopoly on not-shitty hardware and the combination of these two things is not ok by any stretch of the imagination.

Apple could provide the option of unlocking the bootloader and providing some driver code for their peripherals so we could make our own system, but they don't and that fact suggests there's a more sinister objective to this game. They exist to make as much money through their app store as possible and will not give up any control.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#75

Post by asdfaoeu »

simondotau wrote: post #70

This report is somewhat bipolar. On one hand it's arguing that Google and Apple exert too much control over smartphone app marketplaces. On the other hand its proposed remedy asks that Google and Apple exert even more control over these app marketplaces by stamping down on anti-consumer practices like subscription traps and scams. On the other other hand it proposes that Apple and Google should allow third party paym…

I think the general argument is that the stores are not competitive and providing a low value service (having scams and subscription traps) while collecting a large amount of proceeds from developers.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#76

Post by parasubvert »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #52
tracer4201 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I specifically buy Apple products because I trust their App Store. I trust Apple with my information. I’m counting on these guys to get out software I download from the App Store. And I trust them to protect my privacy, better than anyone else. You’re calling them anti consumer. But that’s wrong. This is why I give them my business, and if they bowed to pressure so people can execute whatever software on my device, I…

I seek this asinine take everywhere around here. Opening these platforms doesn't kill them, it forces them to compete.

It is not asinine just because you disagree. They already are competing. There is Android, and there is iOS.

Apple certainly could be hemmed in on clear areas of conflict like Spotify.

Opening the platform is not traditional antitrust because consumers like it this way - it’s more about charity for the competition.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#77

Post by havernator »

encryptluks2 wrote: post #63
edrxty wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the same logic we should just eliminate free will because it's dangerous sometimes. I hate these arguments as it is allowing incompetence to drive innovation. There are plenty of other options whereby 3rd party apps/app stores could be installed safely, just like on any other computer system. If you need to give someone with diminished mental faculties a locked down device, that can be made explicit.

Exactly. I don't understand the argument Apple users are presenting. Its like they can't comprehend that they can have an option to install third-party apps but they don't have to enable or use that if they like being "protected" from hurting themselves.

Right now, ~100% of the software available for iOS has to follow Apple's rules, offer a consistent and safe payment method, and install through the App Store.

I assume you think that would change, else why have other app stores. That's what I don't want. I want as close to 100% of the software for iOS as possible to have to follow the rules. That's part of why I chose iOS.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#78

Post by hugi »

harry8 wrote: post #45
hugi wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I choose to spend my money on devices from a company that's explicitly and repeatedly stated that their mission is privacy. But if you choose to buy phones from ad companies, it's your decision.

They'll flip the nanosecond it suits them. Their commitment isn't valuable or enforceable or anything other than a dodgy sales pitch. Really. They can encode it in contact in a second and choose not to.

Sure, they can flip. But currently Apple's business model is based on privacy, and they're going for it HARD. Like, really hard. And I like that. The moment they stop doing that, I won't support them.

Meanwhile; have you you seen Google stand up to the despicable behaviour of Facebook? No? I wonder why.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#79

Post by hugh-avherald »

simondotau wrote: post #70

This report is somewhat bipolar. On one hand it's arguing that Google and Apple exert too much control over smartphone app marketplaces. On the other hand its proposed remedy asks that Google and Apple exert even more control over these app marketplaces by stamping down on anti-consumer practices like subscription traps and scams. On the other other hand it proposes that Apple and Google should allow third party paym…

I think you're looking for an inconsistency where there is none. Requiring Apple and Google to stamp down on subscription traps and scams is not handing more control to them.

Re: Dominance of Apple and Google’s app stores impacting competition and consumers

#80

Post by jackson1442 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #65
jbverschoor wrote: post #8

Well I love my Apple App Store. It protects me for certain things with payments, and it’s another line of defense against some attacks.

Then stick with it? Nobody is killing the app store. Having options doesn't kill anything except maybe Apple and Googles profits.

There will also be the fragmentation that you see with streaming services today; apps will choose an app store, there will be exclusivity deals; your kid will install a pirate app store to get games filled with deceptive crap in them for free, etc.
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