Earlier quoted context omitted.
Companies are also taking FAR longer to exit/IPO than they did back in the day and most companies still have a 90 day limit on ISOs. How many super early employees are able to hang on for a decade until IPO, or have the cash to exercise their options before they leave?
Super-early employee here. Pay for your options your first day of employment. They should be inexpensive; and your employer should be willing to give you a signing bonus to cover it (after all, the money just goes right back to them). Then when you leave, you get to keep all vested shares with no tax consequence, no need to pony up any cash, and no need to sell right away. Worked out great for me.
Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
511–520 of 684 posts
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#512Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Peter Gibbons: You see, Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't even care. >Bob Porter: Don't- don't care? >Peter Gibbons: It's a problem of motivation, all right? Now if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime, so where's the motivation? Before I started working at MASSIVE CORP I thought Office Space was a comedy.....
Or the other joke: My Boss arrived at work in a brand new Ferrari. I told him: "Wow that's a nice car". He replied: "If you work hard, put all your hours in, and strive for excellence, I'll get another one next year"
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#513Everyone is focusing on the bonus part of the story but man, I really enjoyed the computing history about working inside DEC in those days. Anyone got other good computing history books/stories to recommend? I really enjoyed Masters of Doom and Hard Drive (about old-testament Gates, not new-dove Gates)
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#514Earlier quoted context omitted.
A co-operative model of ownership would solve that problem. Then if the company succeeds, the workers see the rewards.
Once the company is more than a handful of people that's all pretty theoretical.
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#515Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Startup employees going home at 5 and fighting unreasonable schedules? Absolutely. First, overwork doesn't lead to more productivity for knowledge workers. You get to pay that piper one way or another in the end. Second, back in the day, if your company was acquired for multiple billions, you had a pretty good shot at a life-changing infusion of cash. Nowadays, stock options given to employees often end up being wo…
> First, overwork doesn't lead to more productivity for knowledge workers. You get to pay that piper one way or another in the end. I have never seen any research showing net negative productivity for any job for under 60 hours a week of work. Overwork sucks but if you have evidence that it’s bad for productivity please cite it.
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#516Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#517Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Value" does not just comprise of "coding ability". "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process. If they somehow get hired because that quality was hidden somehow during the interview process, the moment it surfaced, there would be behind-the-scenes discussions on…
> I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere You're qualified to speak for a majority of hiring managers everywhere? Maybe you meant in a relatively small geographic area, in a relatively small number of companies? Maybe some of the same ones that colluded to keep salaries low by making illegal agreements amongst themselves? The problem with most discussions on this topic is that everyone thi…
As I stated, feel free to place your counter-point in your resume next time you're looking at next steps. We are unlikely to cross paths in the professional world, but I would be happy to hear about your positive success in the job market with these statements prominently displayed.
your internalized reality (of being allowed to resign at most twice per career) is real for everyone
That is not what I stated so please don't misrepresent it. The discussion is about resigning or threatening to resign whenever you don't get your way in a company. The original comment stated:
Boss: What's stopping you from doing this every time you don't get your way?
Commenter: Nothing. That's how negotiating an employment relationship works. Holy shit.
Again for context, the original story stated that the bonus was brought up but the criteria for receiving it was never officially documented or agreed upon. The bosses decided on 30%, and the poster felt entitled for more. He's certainly entitled to feel that, and he's certainly entitled to make his case for it. He's also certainly entitled to resign if he didn't get his way.
But to threaten to resign if he didn't get it, and then resign anyway once he did get it, is just poor form. Like I said, he can do it, he did do it, the company can't and didn't claw it back after he resigned, it's now 15 years later, but this story does not portray the protagonist in a positive light for hiring again in the future.
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#518Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Value" does not just comprise of "coding ability". "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process. If they somehow get hired because that quality was hidden somehow during the interview process, the moment it surfaced, there would be behind-the-scenes discussions on…
> "Attitude" is a key part of it, and I guarantee you the vast majority of all hiring managers everywhere would eliminate a candidate if they demonstrated high entitlement during the interview process. I do agree with you that not only technical abilities are considered, for good reason. But not standing up for ourselves and letting us being bullied and exploited by higher ups is not an attitude in my book. We may ha…
But this is not the story of the comment I was engaging with. The original comment stated:
Boss: What's stopping you from doing this every time you don't get your way?
Commenter: Nothing. That's how negotiating an employment relationship works. Holy shit.
Again for context, the original story stated that the bonus was brought up but the criteria for receiving it was never officially documented or agreed upon. The bosses decided on 30%, and the poster felt entitled for more. He's certainly entitled to feel that, and he's certainly entitled to make his case for it. He's also certainly entitled to resign if he didn't get his way.
But to threaten to resign if he didn't get it, and then resign anyway once he did get it, is just poor form. Like I said, he can do it, he did do it, the company can't and didn't claw it back after he resigned, it's now 15 years later, but this story does not portray the protagonist in a positive light for hiring again in the future.
That should not be a controversial statement. You should always know your value and worth, and this goes BOTH ways. I would say the same about any role, whether it's sales, marketing, HR, ops, customer service, or whatever else. One can't be unreliable in a company, and expect that not to be a problem for future job opportunities.
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#519I see a lot of comments bemoaning performance-based bonuses, but consider the following: > I remember being in shouting matches with our signal integrity team about among other things, how many capacitors we needed. These tiny devices evened out the power of the system, but they wanted far too many to be added to allow the design cheap and easy to build > Meanwhile I was waking up at 4AM on most days, in full-stress-…
Others, I'm sure, disagree, and I wish them luck.
Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit
#520I really don't think the message of this article matches the state of the industry today. Annual bonuses in many companies - especially in the tech industry - are practically considered part of your compensation, and often times base salaries are adjusted to account for them (I've seen as much as 25% of comp laid out in "bonus"). It's a flat out awful structure, as people will legitimately wait until they get that an…
The answer there is to pay out per pay period or something more frequent but sensible for the business case.