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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#351

Post by fighterpilot »

Negitivefrags wrote: post #6

I actually think bonuses and equity grants are terrible for comapany morale. I've seen it many times, and heard many more stories. On top of the issue in this story, there are others too. For example, if someone wants to leave, but the bonus or vesting is coming up, they will stay, and you don't want people on a project who don't want to be there. As another example I know people who work at companies that are going…

  > but anything outside of a salary for compensation is just a bad idea.
In the hedge fund industry, you can't be a successful firm without a bonus compensation model.

- The profit is usual attributable exactly to specific people. If they don't get paid their share of what they brought in, they'll quit and go elsewhere where they can be paid their share, and you'll be left with all the worst people.

- Some years are successful, and others aren't, meaning you can't have a stable high salary, since that will risk bankruptcy in unsuccessful years. You could adjust salary up and down each year, but that's no different to having a bonus.

In a "normal" company where revenue is stable over time and each person's contribution isn't so easily quantifiable, I can see your point.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#352

Post by jhgb »

jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

> Because once you get one once, you feel entitled to it in the future, and it feels like a loss when you don't get it.

That seems to be the risk of any company that tries to convince you that you have to do your absolute best as an employee (also known more succinctly as "any company").

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#353

Post by foobazzy »

At a certain multinational company that Anon(a close friend) is currently employed at had this way of distributing bonuses when the pandemic hit.

Context: the company is chasing a $100mn y-o-y growth at this point.

- All employees in the US offices get a hefty bonus for the profits they contributed to

- All employees in the India office were to not receive bonuses/increments because we wanted to cut costs (not to forget, Indian salaries are 20% of their US counterparts)

- All employees in the US were to get reimbursements for stylish/modern/gaming chair while working from home($300 a piece)

- All employees in India had to get their $40 chair approved from the manager (request denied in most cases, "unnecessarily too costly", he said)

- No more bonuses for India offices for the next year or so because we spent all the money on the US employees and the managers bonuses

- Indian new hires are getting offered the salary that someone with 5 years exp is already working at in the company

: distribution of bonus/increments seem to have an upper limit. the less you distribute as a manager = the more you have for yourself and your favorite juniors

: ^^ one of the favorites from above actually quit the next day after getting the bonus. it's common to put in your papers right after the increment letter.

edit: formatting

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#354

Post by jrockway »

kccqzy wrote: post #260
woeirua wrote: post #188

Bonuses should be: infrequent, irregular, unannounced, and large. Otherwise you end up in this trap where people expect the bonus and worse yet, count on it to pay their bills. It’s stupid to make it a part of your overall compensation package because if you do, then the bonus is always weighted based on overall company performance. So if the company has a bad year no one gets bonuses even if individual teams crushed…

At Google there are bonuses known as peer bonuses and spot bonuses. They are indeed infrequent, irregular, and unannounced, though not large at all. People feel way happier receiving these sub-$1000 (or slightly above $1000) bonuses than the rather more predictable but large annual bonuses.

I thought the peer bonuses were like $175?

I have a story. The first year I was at Google, I was working on payments. I remember checking the internal version of the documentation for our to-be-announced-at-Google-IO product, and noticed that it has accidentally been made available publicly, spoiling the surprise of the launch. Our director was visiting and was roaming around the office, so I flagged him down and let him know. (Actually, I spent quite a while convincing him that it wasn't some quirk that allowed guest WiFi addresses to also view secret documentation.) The end result was that he said "I'd give you a peer bonus, but I've already given my quota of peer bonuses this quarter." It was so awkward. I didn't even want or expect a bonus. I just wanted the problem to get fixed. (I also found it weird that directors / VPs are running around giving out peer bonuses. Pretty sure they had other ways to reward direct reports.)

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#355

Post by thequux »

TheCapeGreek wrote: post #320
jachee wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> make it a flat guaranteed amount Isn't this functionally equivalent to "pay better base salaries"?

Indeed, but in many countries this is done via a 13th payment. To be honest I've never seen 13th payments offered in dev careers, so when I hear some of my Scrum friends demanding it I'm quite surprised since I know they make comparable amounts to me.

I'm a dev in Belgium, and I get both my "13th month" in December and double holiday pay in June. In fact, I've never seen anybody here who was traditionally employed (i.e., not contracting through a zelfstandig) who didn't get those perks.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#356

Post by _nalply »

ickelbawd wrote: post #231
alienthrowaway wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is something buried deeply in our minds that recoils at being treated unfairly. I have a good job, the pay is decent, the work is interesting - but I'm in the process of looking for a different job because I didn't get a promotion. Some junior members on my team did get them though, and it feels unfair (I absolutely have no idea if they don't deserve it, and I like them as team mates). However, I had previously…

Wow. I had a similar experience last Monday. A coworker I like personally, but who I consider myself more senior than, was given an important role on the team that I had been working towards and discussing with my manager. I felt this incredible, irrational anger as soon as it was announced and it stuck with me for days. I went to bed angry and woke up angry. It really surprised me how visceral and uncontrollable my…

I experienced the same thing more than ten years ago. My coworker and I we were even of the same CS class, and my grades were better than his and I worked two years longer than him in the company but yet he turned out to become my boss.

In my case it seems to be simple to explain why. Have a look at my profile and perhaps you discover the probable cause.

Now I stopped working as an employee and I look forward to never return at slaving away.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#357

Post by Godel_unicode »

sjwright wrote: post #313
sokoloff wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you make a donation in someone's name, you get the tax deduction, not them. Google couldn't "pay" the employees in some non-taxable form and then let the employees take the $1000 deduction even if they wanted to (which they don't).

That’s my point. The donation is financially a corporate donation, but is being marketed to the employee as a perk of their employment. That it’s “their” donation.

The perk is your charity gets the money, the point of giving to charity isn't the tax benefits...

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#358

Post by EdwinLarkin »

foobazzy wrote: post #353

At a certain multinational company that Anon(a close friend) is currently employed at had this way of distributing bonuses when the pandemic hit. Context: the company is chasing a $100mn y-o-y growth at this point. - All employees in the US offices get a hefty bonus for the profits they contributed to - All employees in the India office were to not receive bonuses/increments because we wanted to cut costs (not to for…

That's completely normal and does not only apply to India but all other offshore centers like Eastern Europe or the Philippines.

You guys are a cost centre.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#359

Post by bsder »

hibbelig wrote: post #317
bsder wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very poor sad little came up to me asking for help Never give to beggars. Ever. For any reason. If you just feel you must give, give food --something that can't be converted to cash. Nothing pisses off "beggars" faster than giving them a sandwich. 1) Most of the time it's a scam. Often the individual isn't really that badly off or, if they're children, the money is being skimmed by adults. 2) A lot of the time it's…

Once I saw kids begging and I wanted to give them money. But they pointed at the packed leftover food from the restaurant. Then I knew it was not a scam and it taught me about the living conditions in that place. Thank you for the chance to remember this incident.

Yeah, if someone actually asks for food, I'll probably help them out--certainly if I'm holding it in my hand. That's only happened once in all my years of walking around cities (and I generally walk a lot wherever I live--which is why I recognize all the habitual beggars).

For almost a half-dozen of my too sympathetic friends, I have introduced them to the local beggar population that they wanted to help by saying: "All right. I'll split it with you. Go there (whatever close food source), buy some form of sandwich and drink--no mayo, and come back and give it to him. He'll still be here; trust me on this."

They have quite the reaction when the cursing starts and the food gets thrown back in their face. It's been sadly invariant.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#360

Post by trias »

projectileboy wrote: post #77

The asymmetry between how employees agonize over their behavior towards their employers vs how employers think of their employees never ceases to amaze me. Never forget that your employer will gleefully lay off their most loyal employees if doing so is somehow in alignment with some executive’s comp. I’m not saying you should ever behave unethically, I’m just saying that if you’re on the field, you should be aware of…

I've made the opposite experience (in germany). No company will ever fire anyone. If they really need to, they give you a generous leaving package. The only exception is if the company going bankrupt, in which case the state might help (Kurzarbeit or bail out).
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