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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#121

Post by BugsBunny1991 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #32
jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Yes. I had a high school teacher [underpaid] that gave us donuts in the morning. One day that didn't happen. Anarchy. Screaming, yelling, crying, breakfasts ruined. WHAT WILL WE EAT? This teacher was now an evil villain. The teacher learned: never give out free donuts again.

Should've doled them out based on performance. My fourth grade teacher used to give out candy bars for good grades. King sized ones, too. No other teachers gave out much of anything except gold stars. I was an overachiever so I usually managed to get a treat.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#122

Post by bsder »

taf2 wrote: post #63
ransom1538 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I had a high school teacher [underpaid] that gave us donuts in the morning. One day that didn't happen. Anarchy. Screaming, yelling, crying, breakfasts ruined. WHAT WILL WE EAT? This teacher was now an evil villain. The teacher learned: never give out free donuts again.

I visited China in 2000 and remember one night in Beijing I very poor sad little came up to me asking for help for food and I handed her 5 dollars. As I recall at the time the little ones always were asking for “one dollar” so i felt it very nice to give 5... after an hour or so eating in the restaurant when I came out a literal sea of children were gathered all around me begging for the same gift... I had given the…

> very poor sad little came up to me asking for help

Never give to beggars. Ever. For any reason.

If you just feel you must give, give food--something that can't be converted to cash. Nothing pisses off "beggars" faster than giving them a sandwich.

1) Most of the time it's a scam.

Often the individual isn't really that badly off or, if they're children, the money is being skimmed by adults.

2) A lot of the time it's criminal.

Many of these encounters are used to snag your attention while you become the victim of a crime.

3) You are not solving the fundamental problem but you are making the area worse for the people who have to live there and deal with the beggars on a daily basis.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#123

Post by lumost »

dan-robertson wrote: post #69
taeric wrote: post #26

This is literally a plot point in Christmas Vacation. Is also why I think it is silly for startups to provide too many perks. It sets obvious precedent and will upset more folks when you stop. Find ways to invest in the company so that success is it's own perk. If the company truly has more, work that into raises where you clearly tie the income to the success of the company.

The typical startup problem like the above is a more extreme example of people mailing it in until bonuses are out: people mailing it in until the startup is acquired or goes public because the company is doing well and they lose their shares/options if they quit

It's a weird incentive model when you get down to it. It's rare for individuals who have been with a company for a long time to be fired. While RSUs/guaranteed equity incentivises individuals to leave when they get bored. Options provide an incentive for bored/uncommitted employees to hang on.

I wonder if this is why mid-life startups that stop growing start to feel "stale". Too many people who just want their money and to get out of dodge.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#124

Post by dilyevsky »

mcny wrote: post #103
mulmen wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait what? Who gets the tax break there?

If it is a thousand dollar donation, what am I going to do with the tax break? I still have to take a standard deduction. What am I missing?

Majority of goog employees were making high salary in California so very few people in head office were taking standard deduction especially before trumps tax changes

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#125

Post by wdb »

jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Yes, my experience is that companies always come up with reasons not to give the bonus. Recruiters like to include them as part of the compensation. As yeah you ask X but you get a bonus of Y which makes your request Z salary, awesome right. Of course the contract says it’s a discretionary bonus...

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#126

Post by xwolfi »

hintymad wrote: post #92
jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Is this natural dynamics in an increasingly large company? As a company grows, individual's impact diminishes and so does visibility, and revenue per employee dwindles. Consequently, resources increasingly concentrate to the top. That's why we hear Microsoft's engineers below level 68 complain about pay, and Amazon's entry-level engineers are known for their relatively small package. Ebay's situation was probably eve…

Depends. The US is a bit special and not everyone works to maximize salary. But where I work, small startups absolutely struggle to compete with large banks on salary (Hong Kong, we do banking like France does croissant or the US middle east wars).

It doesn't matter, the perks. In fact each time I hear of some I think they must have huge salary issue vs the competition and try to find leverage points real company cant follow (a bank wont do your laundry, as I heard FB was offering at some point).

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#127

Post by suifbwish »

jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

By the same token I’m not going be doing ANYTHING beyond job description scope for a company that doesn’t give bonuses. Bonus goes both ways.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#128

Post by TheRealDunkirk »

This reminds me of a story back around that time about a guy who was, like, employee 200 at Amazon. He goes to the can, and sees a vestment sheet for the early employees, and realizes that he’s been hired just after people were getting stock grants. Just just prior to him are shortly to become millionaires, and he’s sitting there with a regular job. He quit because of the inequity, and did a tour with this story as a “comic,” but it was just bitter. (I can never find this story any more.) Anyway, the point is that he has a great job at a booming company, with nothing but bright days ahead, and he can’t enjoy it because he knows other people are getting a lot more. I mean, I get it, but everyone can point to someone who has made a better deal for themselves. It doesn’t mean you have to despise the deal you got. I know I can’t make that kind of money because I know I don’t have the personality or family situation to make that kind of deal. And that’s ok. I can’t complain. I do alright.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#129

Post by smnrchrds »

californical wrote: post #58
smnrchrds wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it because the target was set unrealistically high or because the company underperformed?

Does it really make a difference? Seems like it should be set fairly high, if your company is aiming for growth, and sometimes growth is slower for various reasons

> Does it really make a difference?

In my view, it does. Maybe this was a good company with reasonable management who set realistic targets. Maybe it was a not-so-good company, someone in management saw the line item for bonuses and decided to "solve the issue" by setting a target he was sure would not be achievable, just so they could reduce payroll costs with minimal hassle. I am sure both happen in the real world.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#130

Post by chithanh »

heymijo wrote: post #107
jedberg wrote: post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Compensation is like hygiene. When it's taken care of, no one notices. When it's not, things begin to stink. Drucker was talking about this 50 years ago. I think he got the idea from Herzberg [0]. There is so much knowledge that is not yet Common Knowledge. Instead we see the same mistakes on repeat. [0] https://www.managementstudyhq.com/herzbergs-two-factor-theor...

Also standard works on this are:

Robert D. Austin, Measuring and Managing Performance in Organizations (1996). This book coined the term "measurement dysfunction" to describe how reward structures work against company goals.

And Alfie Kohn's 1993 article in Harvard Business Review where he summarizes decades of motivational research (also citing Herzberg), concluding that giving bonuses to staff is usually a bad idea, and it is an especially bad idea for jobs that require cognitive sophistication.

https://hbr.org/1993/09/why-incentive-plans-cannot-work

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