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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#91
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Yes. I had a high school teacher [underpaid] that gave us donuts in the morning. One day that didn't happen. Anarchy. Screaming, yelling, crying, breakfasts ruined. WHAT WILL WE EAT? This teacher was now an evil villain. The teacher learned: never give out free donuts again.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/07/13/156737801/the-...

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#92
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Is this natural dynamics in an increasingly large company? As a company grows, individual's impact diminishes and so does visibility, and revenue per employee dwindles. Consequently, resources increasingly concentrate to the top. That's why we hear Microsoft's engineers below level 68 complain about pay, and Amazon's entry-level engineers are known for their relatively small package. Ebay's situation was probably even worse, as their business stopped growing fast long ago.

All the more reason for working for a blow-out small-to-medium-sized company, except for those few who are truly good at climbing up corporate ladders. The accumulated chance of getting outsized equity return is larger than working for a big company.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#93

I worked at a company in finance markets in the mid 1990s that was paying the traders $2M bonuses.

I think that’s a bit irrelevant. Finance has had a culture of paying a lot and paying based on performance for quite a long time. It is also mostly easy to measure performance of a trader’s accounts or of the firm as a whole. I think some just-so arguments for this structure are that the skills are transferable and the companies are all competing with one another, so someone can easily jump ship, and performance is easy to measure so people know what value they are creating.

Two downsides of this are that it can be unfair to people who just get unlucky (eg working on a less-profitable desk), and that it encourages taking large risks for higher returns, which is especially bad if they are taking on long-term positions. One way to try to address the latter is with a partnership structure where partners are incentivised to rein in big risks, but having joint and several liability is unusual and scary.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#94
I see a lot of comments bemoaning performance-based bonuses, but consider the following:

> I remember being in shouting matches with our signal integrity team about among other things, how many capacitors we needed. These tiny devices evened out the power of the system, but they wanted far too many to be added to allow the design cheap and easy to build

> Meanwhile I was waking up at 4AM on most days, in full-stress-insomnia. Sometimes I would just give up on sleep and go into work at that early hour, and while there, sometimes run into other stressed-out engineers who also could not sleep. I had shaved as much time as I could possibly get off the schedule, and a little cost. A $25K bonus was out of the question at this point, but $10K or more, still in the running.

> Because manufacturing, as discussed, was not on the secret bonus program, did not even know it existed, and had very little incentive to speed up the rework. As far as they were concerned the project was slightly ahead of schedule, so why rush the job and make another mistake? More time ticked by. They actually did make another mistake anyway, and mounted incorrect rams a second time, which I remember being really mad about.

> Meanwhile, our sister project had managed to minimize their cost target and beat the target schedule of their project, such that each member of that team received the full $25,000.

Sounds to me like the bonus program was working exactly as intended. OP got into shouting matches with other stakeholders to trim overly cautious expenses. He and his teammates voluntarily worked far outside regular working hours. Both him and his sister team succeeded in delivering a successful project ahead of time, with lower costs, and were ultimately tripped up only by the incompetence of other teams that had minimal bonus incentives.

I've noticed a huge difference between orgs where people have skin in the game, and orgs where people don't. People with skin in the game, have a real fire under their ass. It's inspiring to see how much they are able to get done, and how quickly. At orgs where people don't have skin in the game, I spend half my time sitting in meetings, discussing what doc we should write next, what format we should use for the doc, and when to schedule the next meeting to review that doc. It's as though people are more interesting in impressing one another and putting in facetime, rather than actually getting stuff done. In fact, I've noticed that people often add a net-negative value to many projects - their urge to add their 2 cents and make their impact felt, results in goalposts getting constantly shifted and launches getting continually delayed.

Is it possible for a badly designed bonus program to produce disastrously bad results? Definitely. But there has to be a better way to give people more skin in the game, when it comes to doing their job as effectively as possible.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#95
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah it was clear, it was because the total company profit didn't meet the internal target, but that hadn't happened ever in the history of the company, so people were surprised.

Was it because the target was set unrealistically high or because the company underperformed?

If the target had been hit every quarter for a few years, if anything it was set too low.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#96
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Ouch, 25% vs. 6%. That's how they value managers vs. (engineers? or everyone else?). Sad.

I'm surprised there isn't more discussion on this. That's more than 4x more for managers than engineers.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#97
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Management lesson: Money is fungible. Making some part of compensation variable on a whim is giving management a rope to hang themselves with.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#98
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

This is the curse of 95% reliability. People will rely on it even though they shouldn't. It's better if it's only like 66% reliable.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#99
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

Ouch, 25% vs. 6%. That's how they value managers vs. (engineers? or everyone else?). Sad.

Well, a) it's based of base salary, so managers may be making a lower base than others, and b) while both bonuses are based on company revenue, managers may have a higher target.

It makes sense to have a larger part of sales' income be commission than, say, engineers, who may have less control over meeting revenue targets.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#100
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

>And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People screamed and yelled and were pissed. At the company all hands they spent a lot of time explaining that bonuses weren't guaranteed.

This is only understandable if the company didn't perform well but did the CEO and other executives not get a bonus as well?? If they didn't it's 100% reasonable. Not so if they continued getting their fat bonuses while everybody else didn't. It's understandable employees become unhappy about this. Let's face it, compensation is mostly one of heaviest factor considered in a job and bonus is factored in to some extent. Hence from bonus to no bonus make that position look less attractive. Pissed? It's an overreaction but maybe it's time to move on. If there are better pastures some people will not hesitate to go. I'd appreciate if the downvoters tell me how is it fair that executives don't get affected by a downturn at all while everyone pays the price collectively, sometimes even the executives mistakes. It completely eludes me and I'm sure I didn't get downvoted by executives.

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