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Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

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181–190 of 684 posts

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#181
I will always take a high salary over any kind of bonus structure/program. I worked for a big aerospace company and earned what I considered to be a pretty mediocre salary but we had a profit sharing program that was about 4% of your annual salary, plus we frequently received spot awards and a decent holiday bonus (one year I got a bonus that was worth approximately 2 paychecks). It was nice but it always felt inconsistent and unpredictable, and then one year they basically stopped all of these programs and also restructured our benefits programs such that they were contributing far less to our health insurance premiums AND they stopped paying into our pension fund (yes, we had a pension!). At that point I calculated my total compensation was actually significantly less than it had been in years past and there was no reason for me to stay. I found another job with a 50% bump in pay and since then I have only accepted positions where I could count on a consistently high salary or rate (if I do a 1099 kind of project).

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#182
post #155
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I think of when companies offer the passive-aggressive "unlimited vacation time" policy. It's not unlimited, and you shouldn't start off your employer-employee relationship with an obvious lie. Set a policy and make it clear that you are exchanging x dollars for y amount of work.

I’m back at a more traditional company after being at a startup for two years and the unlimited PTO was amazing. It wasn’t passive aggressive at all and now I sit here one my hands waiting to accumulate enough pto to take an extended break.

I’m back to a traditional place after unlimited. It’s annoying waiting to accumulate time, but I prefer the lines being clearer. The way my old company did unlimited felt like a cheat to not have to pay a vacation accumulation out if you didn’t use it, but you also felt like you were put on the naughty list for taking too much vacation. If you took beyond a certain amount of leave, someone from higher and higher up the chain had to approve it. Well, you can’t the time of day from the upper echelons of management, so getting your only exposure with them to get approved felt like getting a spotlight put on you for the wrong reasons.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#183
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is also why I think it is silly for startups to provide too many perks Should the opposite be true as well? Startup employees going home at 5 and fighting unreasonable schedules?

I’m not staying at a job past 5 unless I have a share of the company. Screw that. Every startup owner thinks they are unique and that’s why 90% of them fail. If you are working at a new startup the stats says it’s going to be time to look for a new job anyway in a year so why go any extra miles when you don’t have stake? Silicon Valley isn’t a charity

> I’m not staying at a job past 5 unless I have a share of the company. Screw that. Every startup owner thinks they are unique and that’s why 90% of them fail.

Not all companies are the same, and not all companies are startups. I'm back working at the same company which was my first job in tech. Not for the second time, not the third either, but the fourth time now. I was first hired there over 22 years ago in tech support. It's always been a good place to work, that takes care of it's employees (even if it can't pay a huge amount for some positions, there's always a lot of recognition that everyone is needed to make it work, and everyone is appreciated), and I never left because I disliked the company or the work, but because I wanted to focus on school, or explore a new opportunity, or work with family, etc. Our customers love us, and my fellow employees generally like working here, to my knowledge.

They don't expect me or my fellow employees to work past our normal hours (except when on call, or it it's a night-op for sysadmins, which you can generally just take chunks of time off the next day if you like). Yet people do work a little later to finish stuff, or check in to make sure something they did earlier in the week isn't causing problems over the weekend. Because they care about not making problems for their fellow employees, and not adversely affecting our customers, which have a high opinion of us.

All that is a long way of saying that not every company is a startup or behaves as one. People in silicon valley are somewhat conditioned to look for the startups and make that gamble, but there are other choices, and they aren't always nearly as bad as people have been led to believe. Many jobs that are considered shit work can be rewarding if approached the right way. Even IT or programming at a bank can be rewarding if you're lucky enough to have management that mostly gets out of the way and if you cultivate a relationship with the people (the other employees in this case) that you're serving, and see how you make their life better an easier (and there are always opportunities for this, if you pay attention).

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a quarterly cash bonus program that was variable based on company performance. In the fastest-growth times, it often paid out at the cap (250%). After one such payout, my neighbor stood up and theatrically loudly exclaimed, "I have no idea how this gets determined; I've just been strongly incentivized to act randomly!"

> "I have no idea how this gets determined; I've just been strongly incentivized to act randomly!" that was certainly how i felt about raises at one job. good reviews every year, but sometimes a big raise, sometimes a tiny raise. no pattern. once that realization sunk in, i basically checked out of the work. raises continued with no pattern.

I've had that experience too. I've gotten a big raise, a promotion, and a tiny raise all off an employee "report card" that has had the exact same letter scores each time to the point I think the majority is copy pasted.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really make a difference? Seems like it should be set fairly high, if your company is aiming for growth, and sometimes growth is slower for various reasons

> Does it really make a difference? In my view, it does. Maybe this was a good company with reasonable management who set realistic targets. Maybe it was a not-so-good company, someone in management saw the line item for bonuses and decided to "solve the issue" by setting a target he was sure would not be achievable, just so they could reduce payroll costs with minimal hassle. I am sure both happen in the real world.

Pretty sure my old job did this. People on programs that were successful would get a little bonus. This ended up changing to “every program across every sector must meet all business goals for bonuses to be paid.” That made it impossible to get a bonus when some programs were experimental or R&D type things that were kind of expected to run on a deficit for a while.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#186

This reminds me of a story back around that time about a guy who was, like, employee 200 at Amazon. He goes to the can, and sees a vestment sheet for the early employees, and realizes that he’s been hired just after people were getting stock grants. Just just prior to him are shortly to become millionaires, and he’s sitting there with a regular job. He quit because of the inequity, and did a tour with this story as a…

My view is: everything is comparative but if you make everything a comparison, boy you are in for a world of hurt. Life is mostly unfair so better treat the good times like the bonus that they are.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#187
post #17

When I worked at eBay, we had a bonus program based on company revenue. It was around 6% of your salary max and managers got around 25% max based on the same formula. For the first few years, you could count on getting a max bonus every quarter. To the point where most everyone who worked there had always gotten one. And the one quarter, we didn't get the max bonus. In fact, I don't think we got it all. People scream…

If i recall the same happened when google replaced their holiday gift phone with donation to some charities they picked.

Not to sound miserly, but how is this a bonus for the employee whatsoever?

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#188
Bonuses should be: infrequent, irregular, unannounced, and large.

Otherwise you end up in this trap where people expect the bonus and worse yet, count on it to pay their bills.

It’s stupid to make it a part of your overall compensation package because if you do, then the bonus is always weighted based on overall company performance. So if the company has a bad year no one gets bonuses even if individual teams crushed it. Conversely at most companies, everyone gets a bonus in good years even if you have underperforming teams. Add on top of that these stupid requirements that bonuses be paid out on exactly day X, and you end up with lots of people who do nothing until they collect that fat bonus check and then give their notice the next day.

The bonus system as it stands at most companies incentivizes completely the wrong behavior.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#189
Many years ago I managed a small company that gave out bonuses. It was miserable for the most part. People did come to rely on those bonuses as if they were actual pay.

I worked with the owner to develop a system where if the quarterly bonus was over a specific amount 6 quarters in a row we translated that into a pay raise for everyone and that would effectively remove/lower the bonus but give the employees more stability. It has been a lot of years since I have been there, but the last I heard the bonuses were very small but the avg. pay was nearly 2x over any other company in the same industry. Turnover is near zero and the number of people waiting to get a job there was significant.

Re: Thanks for the Bonus, I Quit

#190

This was a joy to read. My aunt, Carli, worked at DEC for a number of years and I recall fondly how proud she was to have a job there. Thank you for sharing this small bit of New England high technology history.

A lot of people forget that Altavista (one of the first web search engines) was created there, and that at some point in the time of the internet, a lot of people mistakenly went to visit http://altavista.com instead of http://altavista.digital.com looking for the search engine.
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