Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#911

Post by killjoywashere » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 12:47 AM UTC

randomsearch wrote: post #696

killjoywashere wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Amazon not provide health care to their workers? https://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/

“Are there no workhouses?” Such a difference between talking about working at a warehouse from the outside vs being born into a life that traps you there. I think HN struggles with topics like unionisation because most of us have just never been at the bottom of society without a way out. We’re relatively rich and so highly skilled - we lucked out to be nerds in a world of tech, perhaps due to timing or perhaps becau…

Funny enough, I have often have the same thought. I'm a military officer and the enlisted folks are often living not far from the Amazon warehouse workers. Indeed, the highest paid officers in the military make less than 10x more than the most junior enlisted recruit. These are people who command hundreds of thousands of people.

I think a significant difference is that most folks in tech do not live and work among the skilled and unskilled laborers. In the military, you know the cook, the plumber, the electrician, and the riflemen, the air traffic controller, the network technician. Personally. You've been around the world together, you may have been in firefights together.

In the military, the headquarters jobs with the bean counters are rare. Bean counting is essentially synonymous with 'fat and happy'. In tech, the equivalent of bean-counting headquarters is 90% of the organization. It's extremely advanced bean-counting, but the field units have atrophied quite a little bit.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#912

Post by zeruch » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 12:53 AM UTC

FearlessNebula wrote: post #590

Diederich wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, you're not kidding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bessemer,_Alabama#Economy "Crime increased following the rise in unemployment and social disruption from the decline of manufacturing industries in the area. As of 2019 Bessemer ranks first in terms of violent crimes for US cities with 25,000 or more people." Population has fallen from its peak in 1970 of 33k to 26k today. Thanks for the reference. EDIT: Also hom…

I'm stupid, but why does unemployment cause violent crime?

Desperate conditions breed desperate responses.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#913

Post by tombert » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:01 AM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #894

Nasrudith wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it hints at a nasty feedback loop. "Are they stuck in financial trouble because of poor impulse control or are they stuck with poor impulse control because of financial trouble?" Singular they that is. It is easier to think long term while feeling secure but not thinking long term can lead to becoming insecure. Not trying to make any moral or blame judgements here - just pondering origins of problems and…

There are many nasty feedback loops caused by severe poverty. Even the most basic things like being able to show up for a job interview in an arbitrary location at an arbitrary time wearing presentable clothing and a relaxed demeanour — try doing that when you can barely afford to use public transport and your daily schedule is rigidly monopolised by whatever terrible job/gig you currently rely upon to literally surv…

Oh yeah, when I was trying to get jobs, I would look around for cops and then hopped the subway gate multiple times because I didn't have enough money to pay for it. I felt a bit bad for doing it, but I wasn't entirely sure what else I was supposed to do, and I figured it's more or less a victimless crime, so I just did it.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#914

Post by blackoil » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

TurkishPoptart wrote: post #753

MattGaiser wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One person earning $15 Amazon in Bessemer is solidly middle class for that town. https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/07/22/worst-cities...

Rightly so, but the issue is that the conditions pertaining to work in an Amazon warehouse do not lend themselves to being the kind of work one can do for decades+. People burn out, their legs grow week, and they get no insurance benefits for physical therapy, and that sort of thing. It's just not a sustainable job for most people, sadly.

Didn't Amazon warehouse replaced walking with robots?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#915

Post by emodendroket » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:23 AM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #681

cat199 wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America's "Rust Belt" cities all tend to have one thing in common Not anti union, but these also had high union activity, which some explain as a cause of their 'rustification' as companies moved production elsewhere (like Alabama) to avoid.

Not even Alabama but overseas where not only is there no union, but companies can get away with paying starvation wages to effective slaves. How an American is going to compete with a guy willing to work for $0.50/day on an 18 hour shift 7 days a week is a mystery. He doesn't even ask for healthcare, and when he dies of exhaustion there are hundreds more waiting to take his place because that's a huge amount of money…

The thing about Trump's tariffs is the rhetoric didn't match the way it was actually used (to the extent there was a strategy at all, it seemed like moving production from China to other low-wage countries was a bigger priority than protecting pay and working conditions in the US).

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#916

Post by emodendroket » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:25 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #336

2bitencryption wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be a bit of an ignorant question, but... Are "dying cities/slums" a purely American phenomenon, in terms of rich first-world countries? Is there similarly a "rust belt" in Germany, of cities that had an economic collapse after manufacturing died out? Are there rich European countries with flailing cities that devolve into crime and poverty? Does Europe have its own Bessemers, Detroits? (though I do hear Detr…

No. Most of Japan is dying as nearly its entire population moves to Tokyo. And that's only a slight sprinkle of hyperbole. Other regions are sustained only by tourism or by other industries where the average worker age is past 60.

Government employment and construction (buoyed by frequent government spending on infrastructure) are also major sources of employment outside the Tokyo metro area. Osaka and Kyoto also have fairly decent numbers of jobs, I think.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#917

Post by mattr47 » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:27 AM UTC

macintux wrote: post #833

khc wrote: post #816

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it different from manufacturing work or work in service industry?

Amazon is infamous for absolutely driving their warehouse employees into the ground. I suspect manufacturing is somewhat less casual about their employees’ health because much of it is unionized, and training is more difficult. Warehouse workers are considered disposable. And the service industry is light years easier than warehouse work, at least based on my time in both.

Those manufacturing jobs that used to be in the town were non union as well.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#918

Post by mattr47 » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:28 AM UTC

Justsignedup wrote: post #486

flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

In Europe there are a lot of social benefits that mitigate this. - Health care - Worker protections - Required time off - Sick time - Maternity leave etc. Here its $15. And you're on your fucking own. If you compare it to completely underdeveloped or dictatorial economies... Sure I guess its way better. But the US shouldn't be comparing comparing itself to that. Its like saying "This engineer is horrible, but he's no…

Amazon warehouse workers have full health insurance.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#919

Post by macintux » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:33 AM UTC

mattr47 wrote: post #917

macintux wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon is infamous for absolutely driving their warehouse employees into the ground. I suspect manufacturing is somewhat less casual about their employees’ health because much of it is unionized, and training is more difficult. Warehouse workers are considered disposable. And the service industry is light years easier than warehouse work, at least based on my time in both.

Those manufacturing jobs that used to be in the town were non union as well.

I would wager the other factor favoring manufacturing jobs is that in warehouse work, the injuries tend to be less likely to attract OSHA attention.

People being carried out of a factory missing a limb are more noticeable than people who stop coming to work because their backs simply can’t sustain the work any longer.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#920

Post by torstenvl » Sat, Apr 10, 2021, 1:36 AM UTC

Gotta stay ionized.