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Speaking as someone who lives adjacent to Bessemer but who does not work at Amazon, you need to understand that Bessemer is a dying city, a slum. These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives, it is no wonder that a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them.
https://247wallst.com/special-report/2019/07/22/worst-cities...
It was clear getting these workers to unionize was good for the union... it was much less clear why it would be good for the workers. People can say what they want about Amazon but the reality is they provide a far better job, wage, and benefits than most. Apart from the broad sweeping messaging around corporations = bad, unions = the answer, it wasn’t really clear at all why a union would benefit workers here. As su…
And now we're seeing the results of the race to the bottom play out.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Unions don’t always contribute to a better outcome for their workers You can say this about anything. Getting a job doesn't always contribute to a better outcome for the unemployed. Getting healthcare doesn't always contribute to better health outcomes. Getting housing after being homeless doesn't always lead to a better life. > It’s hard to motivate a vote for unions when Amazon pays double the federal minimum wag…
Yeah, but this is the problem with the current debate around unions. Pro-union individuals aren’t willing to say, “Unions have some serious drawbacks“ and anti-union individuals aren’t willing to say, “Unions solve some critical issues for modern employees”. Instead, both sides (rightfully) call each other out on their biases and no voter feels able to trust either side.
HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…
I absolutely do not understand why you would vote against your own collective interest for a small amount of union dues. That is not snark, it's a real statement. I legitimately do not understand it. Can someone who works/worked one of these jobs please explain it to me? I am so confused by how lopsided this was.
Reading the replies here I’m pretty shocked by the lack of good arguments against unionisation. Its sad.
Microeconomics argument: The only meaningful way unions increase employees wages is by artificially restricting supply. They can only move the point of equilibrium of demand and supply in their favor by restricting supply, thus unions always have in their interests on: increase minimum wages, licensing, closed shops, etc.
Political Economy argument: What is most interesting for unions is to survive as unions, which means that even if sometimes they are adversarial with employers, they are often allies to the structure. This is because at the negotiation table between unions and employers there are some actors missing, namely, the consumer.
Political argument: Unions exhert force only by destruction: by refusing to work, by boycotting, by collecting administration fees to maintain its structure. The proliferation of unions is the proliferation of destruction. Giving special legal status, protections, considerations, rewards to unions, you are proliferating unions and proliferating destruction.
Up until they make a decision that's not in accordance with what i, the great armchair warrior, decide is good for them. Rejecting my unsolicited advice, means they are ungrateful fools unworthy of my elevated consideration.
All of that went through my head the moment i read the headline. I'm surprised at how intolerant i really am. But with second thoughts, these workers had a choice, they made it. Who am i to say that they are wrong.
HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…
Me personally is anti-monopoly. If a union can only operate by forming a workforce monopoly - something is wrong with the model itself.
It is only natural to put up a collective against that monopoly.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of unions ended up being just another means for the mafia to steal from the poor, skimming off the top of pensions funds and the like. Similar corruption exists today. It is inevitable.
Which shark do you trust to protect you?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Relax. I guess I should've said - "What I perceive as your own collective interest," although I would argue that was implied. I didn't intend to be arrogant at all, I am legitimately confused. The two jobs that I was in a union, the union was massively beneficial to my life. That is where my perspective came from.
"The two jobs that I was in a union, the union was massively beneficial to my life." Just because the union was beneficial does not mean it was better to have it around than not to. You only experienced one side of the coin in those situations.
I know it is just my experience, so it's very anecdotal evidence at best. And that was my point - that is my experience, which is why I'm confused by the massive vote against unionization. I, personally, do not understand it and would like to.
It was clear getting these workers to unionize was good for the union... it was much less clear why it would be good for the workers. People can say what they want about Amazon but the reality is they provide a far better job, wage, and benefits than most. Apart from the broad sweeping messaging around corporations = bad, unions = the answer, it wasn’t really clear at all why a union would benefit workers here. As su…
Collective bargaining lets the employees push back against issues that would otherwise risk their career. For example, an individual speaking up against horrible working conditions, metric-focused managers, and ignorance of unsafe practices would risk getting fired, so the issues would persist. A union would have the leverage required to push back against such issues.
Unions are in the business of recurring subscriptions, and the pitch had to reflect that. Sounds like in case of this specific workplace, the cost-benefit analysis was either high on costs or low on benefits.