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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#641

Post by Shivetya »

whimsicalism wrote: post #484
hintymad wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the jobs that I do, "bad performance" is super subjective and very hard to measure. It's also the common canard to use from the managerial class to get rid of someone they don't like. Are you serious? This line of thinking is exactly why I'm against union. It is really not that hard to tell who are the bad performers. There will be false judgement, but the rate is low. If you want to avoid any false results, wel…

I think it's pretty silly to suggest that that the failure of public schools is just due to teacher unions. I went to a very similar school system as the one in Waiting For Superman and there are a whole litany of issues I would put before teacher unions in terms of what is afflicting our urban schools, top on the list is: a. incompetent administration b. failure to desegregate our schools.

Sorry, just look at which school systems are still closed to this day regardless of the science. NYC union leadership rebuked the CDC when their guidelines did not meet NYC union rules.

Where as much of the rest of the country has had children in schools just fine for months.

You can damn well place a lot of blame on the unions because they are not there for the welfare of students and no action they have taken shows otherwise. If anything they guarantee the least needed teachers will ever end up in schools desperate to have them. They will go after any alternative means of education which includes home teaching, something they have effectively now forced on many minority families in our largest cities.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#642

Post by lazide »

avs733 wrote: post #586
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

I love the label unskilled. I don't think most of my colleagues in academia could physically complete a shift in an Amazon warehouse. Is that a skill? The labels unskilled and entry level are used to depress wage expectations not accurately represent the requirements of the work performed because the work is deemed to be of low economic value.

It is called unskilled because there is no particular set of unusual credentials, rare talents, or uncommon training required. The entry bar is very low in that respect.

It doesn’t mean, and has never meant it was easy work or anyone could survive doing it for long - rather that the necessary skills (for the majority of the population who doesn’t already have them by dint of existing) can be taught in about 5 minutes by someone not trained in teaching it to you.

Ditch digging is ‘unskilled’ because anyone who can figure out a shovel can do it, and theoretically any random passerby could do it (for a time) to a competent degree. This is unlike a ‘skilled’ trade, or craft such as electrical work, surveying, etc.

It’s something very few people could actually sustain for very long - I spent a week ditch digging before when I was younger - but part of why the pay is terrible and the work is hard is because any rando who needs some cash this week can do it. There is a ton of competition keeping prices low and conditions hard.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#643

Post by cat199 »

Lammy wrote: post #428
2bitencryption wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be a bit of an ignorant question, but... Are "dying cities/slums" a purely American phenomenon, in terms of rich first-world countries? Is there similarly a "rust belt" in Germany, of cities that had an economic collapse after manufacturing died out? Are there rich European countries with flailing cities that devolve into crime and poverty? Does Europe have its own Bessemers, Detroits? (though I do hear Detr…

America's "Rust Belt" cities all tend to have one thing in common: a large black population that originally migrated there in the 20th century for industrial jobs that largely no longer exist. Think Detroit with the auto industry. Camden NJ with New York Ship, Victor, and Campbell's Soup. Gary Indiana with US Steel, etc etc: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Works https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migration_(Afric…

> America's "Rust Belt" cities all tend to have one thing in common

Not anti union, but these also had high union activity, which some explain as a cause of their 'rustification' as companies moved production elsewhere (like Alabama) to avoid.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#644

Post by remir »

Someone1234 wrote: post #132

HN is very consistently anti-union. My question is this: Where did you get information about unions? Because people keep mentioning their "bad reputation" and then start listing off a bunch of "facts" that read like they're bullets straight out of one of those anti-union videos during onboard at several major employers (Walmart, Target, Amazon, etc). So anti-union people exactly where does your information come from?…

The HN crowd are generally in an advantageous position regarding the job market. Most people here can negotiate their salary and conditions, so having a union negotiate these for them would not make much sense.

As for Amazon workers, since there was so much resistance coming from Amazon on this case, the workers probably feared that Amazon would have closed shop if they chose to unionize.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#645

Post by eptcyka »

motardo wrote: post #595
resto49 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No objection that most of EU is better than the US in these regards, but Amazon warehouse workers get some of the best healthcare insurance that I’ve ever seen in the US. Similar to what the top-level-commenter pointed out, I guarantee that the warehouse jobs in Bessemer provide among the best healthcare available in the town. The US as a whole is awful at providing healthcare, but healthcare is a particular area whe…

I'm an Amazon warehouse worker in North Carolina. As far as health insurance, I pay 100% of the first $1500, then 10% of the next $15,000 (so $3000 total), then 0% of anything over $16,500. I wouldn't call that astonishing, but it is the minimum $0 monthly premium plan. Also, I'm generally happy at work. I basically feel well paid and well treated.

I don't want to entirely discount your experience, but given that Amazon is not beneath sock puppet accounts, how do I know the post is authentic?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#646

Post by lazide »

asdff wrote: post #313
benmller313 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the cost of living in Small town Alabama is going to compare pretty favorably to anywhere in Europe.

Until you get sick and/or can't work that is.

Up thread there were claims of reasonable (by broken American healthcare system standard) zero cost insurance plans offered by Amazon. Was that true or false?

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#647

Post by libraryatnight »

beaconstudios wrote: post #515
ianbutler wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon Warehouse workers have medical coverage here too. So they're leaps and bounds ahead if you want to go ahead and say that. Of course the US healthcare system is broken so I know what you're getting at but I don't know that I want Amazon to pay their workers > $15 to subsidize a broken healthcare system for their workers I just want a functional healthcare system and for them to continue to make $15/hr.

the UK healthcare system isn't so great either. It's good enough for a safety net (mostly... the wait times are horrendous for non-emergency work, and I know a guy whose collarbone pokes out at a right angle because his doctor wouldn't fix the break), but if you have a chronic condition that isn't one of the handful of really common ones that all doctors know about (like IBS) then you're mostly on your own unless you…

When I did a month summer education program in Cambridge another student on the trip needed a doctor. The experience was pleasant. What you described sounds like an experience you could just as easily have in the US with one of our many sub-par medical professionals that can't do anything but prescribe antibiotics. Bad doctors will exist no matter the system.

Oh, and granted it was just the one experience, but the wait time seemed on par with an urgent care here in the US.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#648

Post by colinmhayes »

stcredzero wrote: post #506
colejohnson66 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” thinking is that it ignores being born into the problem. Sure, some people can work their way out of a rut that their parents were in, but the majority can’t.

The problem with the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” thinking is that it ignores being born into the problem. This is both right and wrong. Asian immigrants are notorious for arriving on foreign shores, penniless, then winding up owning businesses and sending their kids to top tier schools. The problem isn't being born into not having money and things. The problem is being born into an environment that sets chi…

All immigrants work hard. That's how they ended up here.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#649

Post by trackmenot »

bitcurious wrote: post #490
trackmenot wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do people call others dumb (and let's not kid ourselves, that's just what these phrases are a cultured, genteel way of saying) and then are surprised when said others don't vote for the causes they believe in? How does calling people dumb affect the way they vote? In fact, if me and others calling people who vote against unionization dumb makes them more likely to vote against unionization, it clearly means tha…

If the vote is for union representation and the folks who will represent you have the attitude that “if you don’t agree with me you’re an idiot” how could they be trusted to represent your views? They will only ever represent their own interests.

2 + 2 = 4. If you don't agree with me then you are an idiot. Yes, union representatives look after their own self-interest. That's the point of unions! Their self-interest is getting reelected and they aren't reelected unless they look after the self-interests of the union members. What you are arguing for is that people should lie and obscure the fact that someone who denies that 2 + 2 = 4 is an idiot. I don't think people are such snowflakes.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#650

Post by Archio »

u678u wrote: post #613
tw04 wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of jobs in western Europe that will pay similar and won't force you to pee in a bottle or your pants. That's ignoring the whole healthcare situation... which I think you're leaving out of the equation. 30 seconds of searching indicates the average grocery store clerk in the UK makes 8.80GPB/hr. Add on healthcare and they're coming out far ahead of an amazon warehouse worker. https://www.payscale.com/…

You conveniently chose one of the wealthiest countries with the highest wages. Here is a more realistic look at monthly min wages across the region. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...

>You conveniently chose one of the wealthiest countries

Did you know that the United States is the wealthiest country in the world?

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