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Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

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Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#521

Post by praptak »

mariksolo wrote: post #431
tablespoon wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So let me get this straight: companies shouldn't be investing money into revitalizing impoverished areas? No, they should do so, just not be so exploitative about it (e.g. deliberately going into areas full of desperate people, for the reason of using that desperation to exert maximum control with minimum accountability).

So your issue is specifically with the mindset of the company, not the actions themselves? Why would a company ever do anything out of the goodness of their hearts? Shouldn't we just be looking at the result of them following market incentives?

Of course companies don't do anything out of the goodness of their hearts. Companies will do as much evil as they are allowed to and as much good as they are forced to.

The society should act accordingly.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#522

Post by zenron »

Why are people in comments treating Bessemer as small town America. It is a part of the greater Birmingham area and Job opportunities abound. It’s 10 or 15 minutes from Healthcare/Banking center clad Birmingham. If you can stomach the crime between Bessemer and parts of Hueytown, you can make an absolute boat load of money. I live like 15 minutes from Bessemer myself and have had to go there or through there many times.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#523

Post by resto49 »

Justsignedup wrote: post #486
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

In Europe there are a lot of social benefits that mitigate this. - Health care - Worker protections - Required time off - Sick time - Maternity leave etc. Here its $15. And you're on your fucking own. If you compare it to completely underdeveloped or dictatorial economies... Sure I guess its way better. But the US shouldn't be comparing comparing itself to that. Its like saying "This engineer is horrible, but he's no…

No objection that most of EU is better than the US in these regards, but Amazon warehouse workers get some of the best healthcare insurance that I’ve ever seen in the US. Similar to what the top-level-commenter pointed out, I guarantee that the warehouse jobs in Bessemer provide among the best healthcare available in the town.

The US as a whole is awful at providing healthcare, but healthcare is a particular area where Amazon actually is going way above what is normal and is provided astonishingly well for its workers.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#524

Post by hwbehrens »

rootsofallevil wrote: post #474
hintymad wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the jobs that I do, "bad performance" is super subjective and very hard to measure. It's also the common canard to use from the managerial class to get rid of someone they don't like. Are you serious? This line of thinking is exactly why I'm against union. It is really not that hard to tell who are the bad performers. There will be false judgement, but the rate is low. If you want to avoid any false results, wel…

>There will be false positives, but the rate is low What do you base this on? My experience is that if you are perceived to be good you can get away with being a low performer for a lot longer than if you are not perceived to be good, I have seen it quite a few times.

Wouldn't that be a false negative?

A false positive would be when a high-performer is perceived as being a low-performer, and terminated for that reason despite their superior productivity.

I can certainly imagine this occurring, especially to employees who are socially deficient, but then you start to get into the quagmire of politically- and socially-motivated terminations, which I think is outside the scope of this discussion.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#525

Post by TulliusCicero »

tittenfick wrote: post #416
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

Nah, most jobs in super markets would net you the same (if you have no experience.) Germany here.

My wife was working at a Starbucks in Munich and started at 10 EUR/hour, which is like 12 USD.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#526

Post by killjoywashere »

Justsignedup wrote: post #486
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

In Europe there are a lot of social benefits that mitigate this. - Health care - Worker protections - Required time off - Sick time - Maternity leave etc. Here its $15. And you're on your fucking own. If you compare it to completely underdeveloped or dictatorial economies... Sure I guess its way better. But the US shouldn't be comparing comparing itself to that. Its like saying "This engineer is horrible, but he's no…

Does Amazon not provide health care to their workers?

https://www.amazondelivers.jobs/about/benefits/

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#527

Post by j7ake »

quijoteuniv wrote: post #293
flavius29663 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$15 an hour is more than you can get in almost any place in Europe or the world for unskilled labor, what are you talking about?

While that might be right,You are not taking into account that in Europe you get free healthcare & education.

Healthcare isn’t free in most countries in Europe.

Germany and Netherlands for example the payment is in the order of 100 euros a month for health insurance.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#528

Post by old_fart_dev »

whimsicalism wrote: post #484
hintymad wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the jobs that I do, "bad performance" is super subjective and very hard to measure. It's also the common canard to use from the managerial class to get rid of someone they don't like. Are you serious? This line of thinking is exactly why I'm against union. It is really not that hard to tell who are the bad performers. There will be false judgement, but the rate is low. If you want to avoid any false results, wel…

I think it's pretty silly to suggest that that the failure of public schools is just due to teacher unions. I went to a very similar school system as the one in Waiting For Superman and there are a whole litany of issues I would put before teacher unions in terms of what is afflicting our urban schools, top on the list is: a. incompetent administration b. failure to desegregate our schools.

> failure to desegregate our schools

Beyond the oblivious benefits of having different communities of students commingle, how does desegregation help poorer performing school? I was under the impression desegregation was more about providing more equal access to better run schools than improving poorer preforming school.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#529

Post by avereveard »

panta wrote: post #465
bhupy wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warehouse workers get the same (extremely generous) healthcare as every other Amazon employee (due to ERISA). And even if they didn't, through the Affordable Care Act, someone at that income level can buy a "Gold" plan with low deductibles for $75/month. Obviously for Amazon workers, that's irrelevant. K-12 education is free, and once you factor in-state tuition and FAFSA, university is also basically free for an…

In Europe free healthcare is guaranteed even if you lose your job, and there are essentially no limitations (if you need an expensive treatment, you get it, no matter what).

> even if

Bullshit. In Italy only the lowest income brackets get free healthcare, everyone else has various degree of copay. And even then you get terrible services, with queues several months long for exams and quality far inferior from what you get going trough the private sector.

And when I worked and lived in Dublin, same story, I had to pay 270€ for using emergency services at a public hospital and was lucky to have them covered by the private insurance my employer provided.

Re: Amazon workers vote against unionizing in Alabama

#530

Post by dominotw »

fartcannon wrote: post #210
aarongray wrote: post #127

Speaking as someone who lives adjacent to Bessemer but who does not work at Amazon, you need to understand that Bessemer is a dying city, a slum. These were the best paying jobs that many of these workers had had in their entire lives, it is no wonder that a majority of them decided not to bite the hand that was feeding them.

What a tragic way to frame it. The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better so they don't have to choose indentured servitude over poverty. Edit: Added the bit about all the world governments

> The USA (and all the world governments) need to take care of it's poor people better

I believe The USA spends most on social welfare than any other country.

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