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Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

businessinsider.com

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Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#141

Post by AniseAbyss »

mft_ wrote: post #34
agsamek wrote: post #26

What is the difference between this and having cctv in a factory building? Companies impose more work control over more people. If a company makes good use of it then it becomes a regular practice. If not then employees select another employer. We are lucky that we work in a creative field, most occupancies require just good, repetitive work. There should be a legal framework to destroy archive recordings, liability…

Because Amazon + cameras + AI + sensationalism = clicks? To me, the idea of an algorithm which detects when a driver is at increased risk (e.g. drowsy, or not wearing a seatbelt, or maybe using a phone inappropriately) seems like a fundamentally good move. And makes basic sense in any vehicle still piloted by a human. The issue is that (of course) people being watched by a camera opens the potential of misuse, and so…

Honestly at some point a tired Amazon driver is going to mow down a bunch of innocent schoolgirls and the issue will be settled.

Its how driving intoxicated became a felony.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#142

Post by ec109685 »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #130
Lendal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really about the AI at all. The article mentioned a live feed which the AI activates so that your can be berated by a real-live person. From personal experience, I feel like that's what the quitting is truly about. I have quit a job before over surveillance cameras but that was back in 1980's, long before AI. The work environment there was oppressive, and not just due to the surveillance cameras. T…

I'm not sure we read the same article. The linked article said two things: > 'The system then uses "automated verbal alerts" to tell drivers if a violation has been detected.' 'Automated verbal alert' is the exact opposite of a real-live person. The article further says: > 'Amazon told Insider in February driver footage was not automatically available to Amazon and that the "live feed" was triggered only after the de…

Doesn’t the live feed being triggered after the detection of a safety or policy violation, allow them to be berated by a real-live person?

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#143

Post by z77dj3kl »

tomhoward wrote: post #120
z77dj3kl wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... Australia ... has very strict road safety laws and practices, which are generally supported by the community I think this is it. Australians are okay with just about any kind of big-brother surveillance or nanny-stateism as long as it's sold to them with a good story. Australian roads are on par with other wealthy Western nations (US is an outlier), and Oz has an advantage of not having snow/ice and related haz…

> it's not driven by an aim to reduce harm or protect drivers Yeah, this is false. Australians like living in a place that has safe roads, and support governments that keep things that way. It makes for well-functioning health system and a harmonious society. I agree that Australia can be too nanny-statist; that's a separate matter. But it's not true that authorities don't care about reducing harm to people. Governme…

Let's take an example: a lot of states in Australia have recently embarked on a war against speeding. Speed is a really important factor in safety: it's imperative that drivers drive on roads at an appropriate speed.

If the purpose was harm reduction, an appropriate thing would be to concentrate on what really is a safe speed on individual roads, updating speed limits (they are currently set by very stupid rules and are often very inappropriate), and concentrating on those with actually excessive speed (which they do to some extent).

However, the majority of the effort these governments have put into it is to get really picky about anybody driving 3km/h over the limit and giving them insane fines for it. This causes people to just stare at the speedo instead of concentrating on defensive driving or paying attention to their surroundings.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#144

Post by tomhoward »

Arainach wrote: post #137
tomhoward wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Editing this with a re-write, as the first version was snarky, which I don't want to bring to the discussion] Your comment is unproductive as it's largely unfalsifiable ideological rhetoric (with the personal barb "hopelessly naive" thrown in to really poison the discussion). Granted: Corporate influence of government is a real issue; Corporate exploitation and mistreatment of workers is a real issue; But also: Demo…

There's plenty of history in America that the fines and punishments for these things are less than the money made doing them, unfortunately. The math is quite simple for any large corporation.

> The math is quite simple

I know this happens in some contexts (eg environmental protections), but with regard to employee treatment in huge workforces, no, it really isn’t so simple, and you again provide no backing for the claim, just hand-waves.

And you haven’t demonstrated your bigger claim: that there is a literally unlimited supply of people who would, at once, make good Amazon workers, and be so desperate for work and without any other work options that they will tolerate any level of mistreatment.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#145

Post by steelframe »

eth0up wrote: post #75

My suggestion, especially to those who strongly advocate such surveillance, is that those who support or implement it should be under an even greater measure of surveillance. A live feed of their activities 24/7 is necessary due to their participation and effecting in a tentative, unprecedented surveillance state where the watched would be extremely foolish not to keep an unblinking eye on the watchers, who bear the…

> those who support or implement it should be under an even greater measure of surveillance

One of the most memorable scenes for me from the series Chernobyl was when the nuclear scientist being tailed by agents complained about it to the first deputy chairman of the KGB. The chairman then pointed to two people who were trailing him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8oDEwvec1c

I'm not sure that going full-circle with surveillance is the right answer.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#146

Post by rad_gruchalski »

taylorius wrote: post #89

"Safety" is a magic abracadabra word, that is used these days to justify anything and everything someone wants to do. I don't blame the guy for quitting - sounds sinister and oppressive.

„Safety“ sits right next to „green“.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#147

Post by imchillyb »

The word 'safety' is propaganda.

These monitoring devices are installed to limit company liability, limit company losses, and limit driver 'free-time' which the company pays for.

Using the word safety, is legitimizing Amazon's spin on this technology.

Please do not spread that garbage. These devices are installed solely to increase company profits.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#148

Post by bostonsre »

tomhoward wrote: post #103
bostonsre wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And as I posed in another comment, what incentive does Amazon have for it to be anything other than this, given that if it really does lead to more privacy intrusions, many more staff will quit and regulators would take action? They could have calculated that productivity increases due to the nanny cam were worth any blowback from unhappy workers and regulators. At this point the workers don't trust what Amazon say…

> They could have calculated that productivity increases due to the nanny cam were worth any blowback from unhappy workers and regulators That makes no sense. Deeply/continually unhappy workers are less productive, especially if they leave. And action from regulators is bad for productivity, especially when laws are enforced via court action/penalties or when new laws imposed. This line of commentary is just-so narra…

Amazon is just the new kid on the block, companies have been doing this for a long time now. I have friends that are or have been the lowest cogs in these massive shipping and delivery machines. The top rung of Amazon doesn't dictate policy down to those lowest cogs. There are layers and layers of middle management who have very few dials to tweak. If those managers want to advance their careers they don't have many options except to squeeze those gains out of the lower rungs. The nice managers sink while the ones that exploit are promoted. It absolutely sucks on the bottom rung, yet those on the bottom know that they have very few if any better options to provide for their families. They are almost all deeply unhappy and there is a sense of despair and hopelessness down there. Everyone better off assumes it's not that bad, but really, they are miserable. Lots of people were wondering how Trump possibly could have gotten elected, but there is a massive amount of unhappy people that are tired of getting squeezed by anyone with authority and were grasping at anything that was remotely promising any change at all. It is bad down there and the hilarious thing is that so much human despair can be alleviated by just acknowledging how hard it is down there and giving the bottom rung an extra quarter or two an hour every few months. The companies would barely notice.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#149

Post by koolba »

GavinMcG wrote: post #125
koolba wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2048 would be a better title.

...not if you're trying to get people to think of 1984.

I disagree. 2048 has more buzz value.

People would describe it to their less tech savvy friends to explain the meaning of a the power of 2.

48 is 84 transposed.

It’s closer to the present and likely all of it would be possible with today’s technology.

Re: Amazon driver quits over AI-powered safety cameras in delivery vehicles

#150

Post by pedrosorio »

bostonsre wrote: post #148
tomhoward wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They could have calculated that productivity increases due to the nanny cam were worth any blowback from unhappy workers and regulators That makes no sense. Deeply/continually unhappy workers are less productive, especially if they leave. And action from regulators is bad for productivity, especially when laws are enforced via court action/penalties or when new laws imposed. This line of commentary is just-so narra…

Amazon is just the new kid on the block, companies have been doing this for a long time now. I have friends that are or have been the lowest cogs in these massive shipping and delivery machines. The top rung of Amazon doesn't dictate policy down to those lowest cogs. There are layers and layers of middle management who have very few dials to tweak. If those managers want to advance their careers they don't have many…

“ It absolutely sucks on the bottom rung, yet those on the bottom know that they have very few if any better options to provide for their families. (...) there is a massive amount of unhappy people that are tired of getting squeezed by anyone with authority (...) the hilarious thing is that so much human despair can be alleviated by just acknowledging how hard it is down there and giving the bottom rung an extra quarter or two an hour every few months“

How do small increases in compensation at the soul-crushing job help solve these people’s problems? If anything it sounds like it makes it even less economically viable to leave the dystopian environment they are in.

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