131–140 of 191 posts
Many blue collar workers are recorded all day long. In fact, it’d be tough finding a brick-and-mortar store that doesn’t have recording devices all over. Why is this news? Because it’s in a truck? Because it’s using AI?
Because it's Amazon it feeds the "Amazon mistreats its workers" narrative.
I don’t think the systems are new or unique. We test drive a Kia last weekend and it was a feature they called “Driver Attention Warning.” I’ve seen this in other brands and cars as well. It looks like these systems use a variety of factors, steering patterns, frequency of vehicle lane assist being activated, cameras evaluating driver, biometrics (heart rate, body temperature etc.), and face monitoring/eye tracking (…
But the thing I wonder is, in 50, or 70 years from now, when someone's car is deactivated because they said the wrong thing online, or or an API was deactivated somewhere, I wonder who future generations will hold responsible. Because it seems like the smart people in the room are completely aware of the systems of oppression they are creating, but are doing nothing to stop it.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think it's really about the AI at all. The article mentioned a live feed which the AI activates so that your can be berated by a real-live person. From personal experience, I feel like that's what the quitting is truly about. I have quit a job before over surveillance cameras but that was back in 1980's, long before AI. The work environment there was oppressive, and not just due to the surveillance cameras. T…
> berated Where did it say "berated"?. Outside of the stance "I've already decided I distrust anything Amazon does", what facts do we have that this "live feed" is anything more then a welfare checkin to make sure the driver is OK, or something else non-malicious and sincerely focused on safety? And as I posed in another comment, what incentive does Amazon have for it to be anything other than this, given that if it…
> The reference to AI in the article makes it sound dystopian, but isn't this potentially better, if it just means that computation is used to detect any issues rather than having humans watching their fellow workers?
> [..] what incentive does Amazon have for it to be anything other than this
What Amazon (and others doing similar stuff) does is create something of a Panopticon [0] to enforce proper behavior:
> Although it is physically impossible for the single guard to observe all the inmates' cells at once, the fact that the inmates cannot know when they are being watched means that they are motivated to act as though they are being watched at all times. Thus, the inmates are effectively compelled to regulate their own behaviour.
> In 1965 the conservative historian Shirley Robin [..] argued that Bentham's pet gadget, the panopticon prison, was a device of such monstrous efficiency that it left no room for humanity.
> Recent Libertarian thinkers began to regard Bentham's entire philosophy as having paved the way for totalitarian states.
In this regard, as with the Panopticon, it doesn't even matter if the camera's work or there's AI involved.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Amazon measures all of the numbers and fires its "less productive" workers. There's a never ending supply of desperately poor people, so they have a constant stream of people to work as fast as physically possible until they burn out. This is baked into their entire philosophy - it applies to warehouse workers, drivers, and software engineers.
"There's a never ending supply of desperately poor people" There is such a thing as government-mandated conditions in most places even in the US (I'm not from the US but I'm not that stupid), and even if not, at a certain point people are better off doing nothing than being so badly abused, and there is always a better option below a certain level of mistreatment. This commentary is just-so narrative, not serious dis…
Government-mandated conditions are on paper only, are often abused and the boundaries are always stretched out to the breaking point.
> at a certain point people are better off doing nothing than being so badly abused, and there is always a better option below a certain level of mistreatment.
You're underestimating the amount of rampant poverty and unemployment without benefits in the US. You're un
> "Insider reported in February that Amazon was equipping all delivery vehicles with an AI camera system called Driveri, which is manufactured by a company called Netradyne. > The cameras are always on and scan drivers' body language and the speed of the vehicle, detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. > The system then uses "automated verbal alerts" to tell drivers if a violation has b…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They could have calculated that productivity increases due to the nanny cam were worth any blowback from unhappy workers and regulators That makes no sense. Deeply/continually unhappy workers are less productive, especially if they leave. And action from regulators is bad for productivity, especially when laws are enforced via court action/penalties or when new laws imposed. This line of commentary is just-so narra…
Amazon measures all of the numbers and fires its "less productive" workers. There's a never ending supply of desperately poor people, so they have a constant stream of people to work as fast as physically possible until they burn out. This is baked into their entire philosophy - it applies to warehouse workers, drivers, and software engineers.
It sounds like what you don't like is technocracy, which I can agree is harmful at times.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> At some point of abusing workers, too many workers will quit and/or regulators will intervene. Welcome to America, where the regulators are owned by the corporations and there's a never ending supply of hopelessly poor people desperate for jobs to replace anyone who quits. Your perspective is hopelessly naive.
[Editing this with a re-write, as the first version was snarky, which I don't want to bring to the discussion] Your comment is unproductive as it's largely unfalsifiable ideological rhetoric (with the personal barb "hopelessly naive" thrown in to really poison the discussion). Granted: Corporate influence of government is a real issue; Corporate exploitation and mistreatment of workers is a real issue; But also: Demo…
Maybe it's just that I live in Australia, a country that has very strict road safety laws and practices, which are generally supported by the community, given that our road fatality figures are now very low (in 2019 we had just under 1200 road deaths in a nation of 25.3M people - a low rate by world standards, particularly given how much we drive here). But I just don't see the cause for outrage over this - as long a…
I don't understand the outrage either.
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> ... Australia ... has very strict road safety laws and practices, which are generally supported by the community I think this is it. Australians are okay with just about any kind of big-brother surveillance or nanny-stateism as long as it's sold to them with a good story. Australian roads are on par with other wealthy Western nations (US is an outlier), and Oz has an advantage of not having snow/ice and related haz…
> it's not driven by an aim to reduce harm or protect drivers Yeah, this is false. Australians like living in a place that has safe roads, and support governments that keep things that way. It makes for well-functioning health system and a harmonious society. I agree that Australia can be too nanny-statist; that's a separate matter. But it's not true that authorities don't care about reducing harm to people. Governme…
(Counter-example) Approximately 70% of Germany's motorways have no speed limit, yet despite that and being very busy, they are still considered the safest roads in Germany.
Full disclosure: I don't support the lack of speed limit, from personal experience when driving in Germany it appears to encourage tailgating and/or generally aggressive driving.
> "Insider reported in February that Amazon was equipping all delivery vehicles with an AI camera system called Driveri, which is manufactured by a company called Netradyne. > The cameras are always on and scan drivers' body language and the speed of the vehicle, detect if a driver is wearing a seatbelt, and even measure drowsiness. > The system then uses "automated verbal alerts" to tell drivers if a violation has b…
I don't know how it is in the US but I always get the feeling the Amazon driver uses his own van or car to deliver the parcels. Wouldn't even think about having something like this installed in my own car. I don't agree with such a system but if you use Amazon's van/car there is less opportunity to be against it.