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TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

arstechnica.com

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Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#161

Post by adrr »

reaperducer wrote: post #64
schiang wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't just provide supply chain anymore. They are also a huge market now because of its growing middle class. China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market.

China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market. "Choose to" tap into that market. No company "needs" to be in China. Just like there are thousands of companies in Europe that do not do business in the United States, and thousands of companies in Brazil that do not do business in Russia.

China consumer market is bigger than than the US. It will be for public companies to justify they they won’t sell in China to their stockholders outside of IP theft and PR issues.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#162

Post by coliveira »

tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

Americans need to realize that, outside the US, nobody really cares anymore about the trope "China is tracking mobile apps". The reason is that everyone knows that US agencies are already doing this (remember Snowden?). So non-US customers feel that is just fine for competition if other countries can provide them with technology, even with the downside of the sporadic spying thing. It basically is better to have competition than being in the hands of a single superpower which, as Donald Trump has shown, can easily become out of control.

By the way, nothing was better for China than the big show provided by Trump and his minions in the US during the last four years. It showed that nobody can trust 100% on the US to uphold democratic values.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#163

Post by jug »

soheil wrote: post #78

This is a story because it's fashionable to hate on China. This has been going on in the US for years already. Using terms like CAID without an explanation to what it is makes the reader scared that China has somehow been able to infiltrate iOS to track users, this is bad journalism. CAID is a simple advertising id used across apps, there is no hacking of iOS or an incredible technical prowess on the the side of Chin…

Good. So it sounds like it’s no big deal if Apple blocks TikTok until the circumvention of App Store policy is resolved then.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#164

Post by [deleted] »

Clubber wrote: post #104
lotsofpulp wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is conceivable in a winner take all business, or a top 2 take all business, you either tap into the world’s largest market or you don’t survive. For example, Apple being able to lock up all the supply of higher end chips and smaller companies not being able to compete.

>It is conceivable in a winner take all business, or a top 2 take all business, you either tap into the world’s largest market or you don’t survive. The US is the world's largest market, by a lot. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_marke...

[deleted]

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#165

Post by birdsbirdsbirds »

reaperducer wrote: post #64
schiang wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China doesn't just provide supply chain anymore. They are also a huge market now because of its growing middle class. China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market.

China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market. "Choose to" tap into that market. No company "needs" to be in China. Just like there are thousands of companies in Europe that do not do business in the United States, and thousands of companies in Brazil that do not do business in Russia.

They can choose for a year or two, but they will lose on scale. Apple can pull off their own processor because they are big enough. If companies don't sell in China, only Chinese companies are big enough to have fancy new components and production processes.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#166

Post by sudosysgen »

CountSessine wrote: post #122
sudosysgen wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not dropping prices in NA in good part because our governments are dysfunctional and don't want to intervene, and because large landowners see such interventions as contrary to their benefit. And besides, relaxing zoning is far from enough - you need to build vast and performant public transit systems, and in the case of Tokyo you need to make housing a depreciating asset. South Korea was not a democratic state…

We're not dropping prices in NA in good part because our governments are dysfunctional and don't want to intervene, and because large landowners see such interventions as contrary to their benefit. And besides, relaxing zoning is far from enough - you need to build vast and performant public transit systems, and in the case of Tokyo you need to make housing a depreciating asset. Yes - and as I said, this is the defec…

Japan, SK, and Taiwan, were not democratic when they were manufacturing behemoths, yes.

For reference, the US has roughly twice the manufacturing output of Japan.

The idea that manufacturing boomed there because the workers were almost slaves is fairly accurate.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#167

Post by topspin »

freeflight wrote: post #121
crmd wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Yes - because manufacturing in the West is ultimately self-defeating. > The idea that a single country could emulate that, in complete isolation, is bluntly said childish. Who is this “single country” straw man you are referring to? The western world is comprised of 50+ nations with over $40 trillion in GDP.

And these 50+ nations have their very own industries that grew out of a demand for them to the scale of the demand for them with interdependence reaching all the way into Chinese tech manufacturing. If you retool all of that to suddenly do something else, than you will be missing something else. Because it's not like these 50+ nations with over $40 trillion in GDP are just sitting there and wondering what to do with…

> That's why it's not really a "straw man",

Except that it is a straw man. This "childish" nation that seeks to thrive with no foreign trade ("in complete isolation") is a fiction inside your head that you're sharing as a target for your argument. It doesn't exist except as a straw man.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#168

Post by fauigerzigerk »

jimkleiber wrote: post #130
dalbasal wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting kind of semantic. Theoretically, No company "needs" to be in business at all. If Chinese consumer market growth continues as it has been, it may the biggest market for Apple. Hard to be the largest luxury goods company in the world without the largest luxury goods market... OP is right. This gives China influence. Supply chain influence is a minor thing, relative to " I'm your biggest customer " influe…

Why I don't like the "needs to" framing, especially as it comes to business decisions, is that I think it takes the agency out of the process. Too many of my friends and family seem to assume that just because there are customers willing to pay or cheaper labor, a company must automatically do a certain thing unless the government makes a law to prevent them from doing it. I guess that's why I like the "chooses to" f…

How do you avoid a situation where companies making ethical choices are bought or outspent by companies (or in fact by shareholders) that got rich by exploiting every profitable opportunity that is legally available to them, including unethical ones?

From the point of view of any particular company the choice you're talking about may well exist, especially where the company is founder-led. But that doesn't mean the outcome you're hoping for can be achieved on a purely voluntary basis.

It may work in exceptional cases though, Apple being one of them.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#169

Post by gridder »

rootusrootus wrote: post #72
Jonanin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story is that major Chinese companies and the state are working together to develop an alternative to Apple’s IDFA. While aggressively pushing back against companies in the U.S. tracking users, Apple seemingly doesn’t mind having a double standard for China.

> Apple seemingly doesn’t mind having a double standard for China. That seems to be the case with many businesses. Nobody wants to lose that entire market just to stand on principle.

China is also the place where most of Apple products are produced, this matters a lot as well...

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#170

Post by gridder »

hackererror404 wrote: post #46
vlovich123 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, having serious support in China (including from the CCCP) is one way. Epic wouldn’t matter here since China is an extremely important market for Apple.

not just an important market, an integral part of their supply chain. Without China, Apple wouldn't be able to make a single product as it stands today. China has all the power in that relationship.

Well said, this should be told more often.
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