Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators • Hacker News Board

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#121

Post by tonfa » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #78

Clewza313 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the downvotes? Japan's COVID policy has been quite openly xenophobic: for a long time, Japanese citizens could return with minimal checks, but even permanent residents had an absolute bar on re-entry.

Yea the r/movingtojapan thread is full of people complaining about how the policies seem to give Japanese citizens a free pass while blaming the importation of new virus strains on misbehaving foreigners (whether or not that's true). They've fully blocked immigration (not tourists—legal immigrants) despite fairly strict quarantine and testing policies.

Is that unique to Japan though? (Had the impression that US hasn't been much better, and I'd guess Schengen as well at least to some level)

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#122

Post by matz1 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

raindropm wrote: post #85

h0nd wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it would be an option to NOT treat every foreigner as a possible threat, but as a welcomed guest to visit Japan and the Olympic games. edit: I am surprised to see YC attracting people supporting discrimination.

Um, can't we give those narrative a break even in the time of peril like this? It's just so out of context. It's global Pandemic dude! Controlling the risk from outsiders is the protocol in EVERY COUNTRY right now. They host the Olympic, they seriously WANT everyone from every country to be in their country! and it's just can't happened right now. If the situation is normal, and they refuse to let foreigner in, then…

The risk are so low, vast majority of people will survive covid just fine regardless of vaccine or any other precautions.

It is pandemic but the risk has been overly exaggerated.

Florida can host superbowl recently with almost full attendance.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#123

Post by ttanimichi » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

DocTomoe wrote: post #81

reedf1 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited Japan a few months before the pandemic hit and it is really sad thinking back now. There was a real effort from the airport in Tokyo to as far away as Osaka and Kyoto accommodating for foreign languages and really showing off Japanese culture. At the time it felt like I was being practised on - so sad to see all that effort go to waste.

That also was related to the general idea that the Tokyo Olympics were meant as a Japan Rebirth after Fukushima, much like the 1964 Olympics were considered a Rebirth of a modern Japan after WW2.

Yes, but, the PREVIOUS Tokyo Olympics was also cancelled due to WW2. (originally scheduled to be held in 1940 and rescheduled to be held in 1964.)

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#124

Post by Ichthypresbyter » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

tonfa wrote: post #121

chrischen wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea the r/movingtojapan thread is full of people complaining about how the policies seem to give Japanese citizens a free pass while blaming the importation of new virus strains on misbehaving foreigners (whether or not that's true). They've fully blocked immigration (not tourists—legal immigrants) despite fairly strict quarantine and testing policies.

Is that unique to Japan though? (Had the impression that US hasn't been much better, and I'd guess Schengen as well at least to some level)

US embassies stopped processing most nonimmigrant visas, but they still processed student and immigrant visas, and permanent residents who had left the US were allowed to return.

There is no single Schengen visa system- while holders of a visa for one Schengen country can travel freely within the area, the individual countries still have the choice to issue them. As far as I know most Schengen countries kept issuing long-term visas.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#125

Post by johannes1234321 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

zpeti wrote: post #66

book-sandworm wrote: post #46

This is such a painful situation for Japan. When I visited a couple a years ago the preparations were still going full force. They were so proud and looking forward to hosting it. Really think they are between a rock and a hard place with any decision. This together with all the sub-human conditions the workers in Qatar for the football world championship make it seem like organising events like this not something I…

Are their any actual legit studies that have shown if hosting an olympics is worth it for the overall economy or not? For example I think the olympics put Barcelona on the map for a lot of tourists and they’ve been reaping the rewards since, but it seems to me that’s more of an exception than the rule.

Aside from financial gains through tourism etc. I have another observation from the 1972 Olympic Games here in Munich: Hosting the Olympic Games was a booster for infrastructure projects. Like some new roads, finally deciding to build an underground, building a suburban sub-surfsce rail line through the city center and convert it to pedestrian area, ...

Multiple of those projects where pushed off before, but Olympics gave the "let's do it" spirit for those huge projects.

Having those projects done is an important part of today's quality of life here (while since the late 90ies underground construction mostly stopped and we're seeing consequences as the city grows ...)

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#126

Post by h0nd » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

pablovidal85 wrote: post #111

h0nd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, I feel this needs some explanation. >You are aware that we have a global pandemic right? It would be a very difficult task to avoid noticing. >So if even you won't treat everyone as a possible threat, the chance that 'guests' bring in the virus is high. Since Japan is an island, most people will fly there by plane and most people will be inside the plane for at least 6 hours+. Even if at half capacity the…

> there is a staggering 22% positivity rate in Tokyo today Do you mind citing your source? A quick search got me a 3.3% positivity rate [0] as of today. [0]: https://stopcovid19.metro.tokyo.lg.jp/en/cards/positive-rate...

Sure, same source as original article: https://japantoday.com/category/national/Tokyo-reports-340-c...

However, I just saw that the rate is for the whole country, not for Tokyo alone.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#127

Post by dfxm12 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

speeder wrote: post #119

toyg wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is now the standard reaction of first-worlders whenever something like this is planned for their city. Everybody knows the costs are massive (and often being siphoned off by corrupt people) and the upsides very few; most people are unlikely to attend the events (they are typically very expensive); and the pain of construction will add misery to their everyday life for years in advance. The press typicall…

I am Brazillian and we had that reaction too. The World Cup was more popular, but still wasn't widely accepted as some people think it would be. The Olympics was outright hated, so many stupid shenanigans happened there (like demolishing a NEW stadium, to build another identical one, just because the seatings positions were slightly bad). So no, you don't need to be first world to recognize how stupid hosting the Oly…

just because the seatings positions were slightly bad).

A lot of the IOC (and probably FIFA) requirements seem silly. Pretty soon, we're going to see the Olympics go back and forth between LA and Paris just because they're the only cities that naturally have the required infrastructure, unless there's a change.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#128

Post by orblivion » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

steelframe wrote: post #12

> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are…

Nassim Taleb claimed on his Twitter account that Japan has made ventilation a matter of policy. Does anybody know about the accuracy of this? This is what makes airplanes safe, right?

I honestly don't understand why we don't see restaurants here in the U.S. (edit: my reference is New Hampshire) with at least HEPA filters. Ideally they'd crack the window open even in the winter.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#129

Post by newsclues » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:31 PM UTC

HenryBemis wrote: post #93

dagw wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are their any actual legit studies that have shown if hosting an olympics is worth it for the overall economy or not? Lots, probably hundreds. Most of them conclude 'it depends, but basically not worth it'. But the gist is that if you are already a functioning city and popular tourist spot (like London) you'll get close to zero benefit (at massive costs). London actually significantly had less total tourists the year…

The upside is that you modernise your city. In this case, they would have receive X thousand/million of tourists, which they won't come. If you travel to Japan (e.g. from Europe) you don't just go for the events. You also say an extra 5-10 days. That is a big loss for the tourist industry, the millions of mouths eating in restaurants, drinking in bars, and on top of the costs/profits, imagien that the state takes a 5…

So we should pick cities in developing countries in need of modernization and have the global community fund it?

Instead of incremental improvements to wealthy nations, the Olympics is the opportunity to build up the developing world a as and highlight it for the world to see.

If only the IOC was not the peak of corruption

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#130

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 2:32 PM UTC

rjsw wrote: post #112

Retric wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Winter Olympics locations rarely end up as tourist destinations because people take fewer international vacations to cold locations. Summer Olympics have a better shot, and the stadiums can more often be useful long term. But, it’s still low odds of success. The best bet seems to be a lesser known location which can use most of the infrastructure and has some non Olympics tourist destinations. Which isn’t a huge list…

> Winter Olympics locations rarely end up as tourist destinations because people take fewer international vacations to cold locations. I would describe it differently, the facilities used for skiing events are usually already tourist locations, plenty of people take international skiing vacations.

[deleted]