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Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

japantoday.com

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Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#51

Post by Pyramus »

nradov wrote: post #38
jobigoud wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison was on case rate. Being obese doesn't make you more likely to catch the virus afaik.

Case rates can't be usefully compared between countries because they all have different testing practices. Being obese actually does make you more likely to catch the virus. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7430889/

The study you linked shows that obesity is linked with more severe outcomes, not higher infection rates.

I know at least one study that shows infection rates did not change with co-morbidities, see Fig 6b in https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-19509-y

However I would not be surprised to see slightly higher infection rates mediated by healthier immune systems in healthier folks.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#52

Post by silverpepsi »

Clewza313 wrote: post #49
euske wrote: post #16

The sad truth is that COVID accelerated xenophobia and isolationism throughout the world, and Japan is no exception.

Why the downvotes? Japan's COVID policy has been quite openly xenophobic: for a long time, Japanese citizens could return with minimal checks, but even permanent residents had an absolute bar on re-entry.

I hope you don't mind me adding a concrete example because some people don't process this fully

I have a friend who is a Westerner with a Japanese family, 2 young kids, has been there decades... she couldn't risk leaving the country to visit her own parents in an emergency because she would be prohibited from reentering Japan and seeing her husband and young children again for an undefined period of time. Ultimately that period ended up being something like 6~8 months before they finally changed the freaking law. The policy was unprecedented and illogical, I don't think any other extreme covid prevention countries went that far. Slightly mistiming a trip pre-covid and she would have been kept from her children for that many months, completely crazy

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#53

Post by offby37years »

HeavenFox wrote: post #18

This seems like the worst outcome for Japan and best outcome for the IOC. Japan incurs all the cost of hosting the Olympics while reaping none of the tourist yen, while the IOC gets paid the broadcasting fee. At this point the optimal outcome for Japan is probably to cancel the game altogether. Is it an example of the political pull of the IOC? The Asian culture of face-saving? Or plain old sunk cost fallacy? I hones…

2036 Tokyo sympathy bid.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#54

Post by mantap »

bamboozled wrote: post #20
steelframe wrote: post #12

> it peaked at more than 2,500 cases per day in Tokyo That's 0.027% of the population of Tokyo per day in a city that has over 6,000 people packed in per square kilometer. By comparison, Idaho has a population density of 7.64 people per square kilometer, and right now the infection rate there is 0.021% of its population per day. That's only a 30% difference in percentage of population infected per day, but there are…

The thing is, in Japan there is a lot of fluff happening. You can't just get tested unless you meet fairly stringent requirements, or pay for a private clinic. Private clinics aren't required to report numbers, or the government isn't reporting the numbers from private clinics. So if you're living in Japan, you're basically flying blind, it's very hard to ready what's really going on and assess the situation. It's al…

Things would be a lot clearer if positivity rate was the reportable number, not absolute number of positive tests. This would also encourage countries to test more rather than less.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#55

Post by Pyramus »

starfallg wrote: post #50
samatman wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes this is actually correct. Continuing to wear a mask in public is about compliance, not safety per se: if exceptions were made for the vaccinated, people who just don't want to wear a mask would be hard to separate from those who are no longer at risk of catching or spreading the disease. As someone who has had natural immunity (it sucked, made a full recovery) for most of the pandemic, this has been on my mind, s…

This isn't stressed enough though. When dealing with such issues we also need to consider group behaviour as a whole. Every additional exception introduces costs and risks so it makes sense for a part of the population to signal compliance unnecessarily.

Exactly. Plus there will likely be (small) additional benefits from reduced transmission for other diseases that are spread through respiratory droplets and aerosols.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#56

Post by bamboozled »

mantap wrote: post #54
bamboozled wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, in Japan there is a lot of fluff happening. You can't just get tested unless you meet fairly stringent requirements, or pay for a private clinic. Private clinics aren't required to report numbers, or the government isn't reporting the numbers from private clinics. So if you're living in Japan, you're basically flying blind, it's very hard to ready what's really going on and assess the situation. It's al…

Things would be a lot clearer if positivity rate was the reportable number, not absolute number of positive tests. This would also encourage countries to test more rather than less.

What's the point of a positivity rate in this case though if the testing is so varied. For example, you can't really give an accurate picture if one day 1000 tests are performed and the next day, 9000 ?

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#57

Post by thitcanh »

fomine3 wrote: post #17

Tokyo Olympic situation is sucks for politics against covid. Gov softly ordered people/business to stay home, etc... , meanwhile they must make the event succeed with foreign people. It's inconsistent and it prevents strong operation. I wish they did this decision (or cancel the event) last year.

English note: To suck is a verb, never put “is” before.

I agree that the Tokyo Olympic situation sucks. Rather, it’s the worst of both worlds.

I still remember that Tokyo started removing swastikas around the city because of the olympics around a year ago and that felt so backwards already then, before COVID.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#58

Post by hrktb »

jelling wrote: post #21
HeavenFox wrote: post #18

This seems like the worst outcome for Japan and best outcome for the IOC. Japan incurs all the cost of hosting the Olympics while reaping none of the tourist yen, while the IOC gets paid the broadcasting fee. At this point the optimal outcome for Japan is probably to cancel the game altogether. Is it an example of the political pull of the IOC? The Asian culture of face-saving? Or plain old sunk cost fallacy? I hones…

Perhaps it gives the population something to look forward to.

People have been memeing "Stop it! Stop it" [0] for a while now.

To take with a shovel of salt of course, but that feeling of just getting shafted by the corrupt politicians and the IOC, and just not wanting more money to go into the pit is echoed by the people in my small sphere.

[0] https://www.cnnphilippines.com/sports/2020/3/4/tokyo-2020-ol...

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#59

Post by toyg »

marakv2 wrote: post #26
jelling wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it gives the population something to look forward to.

We arnt looking forward to it. We never really wanted it. Edit: sorry that's a bit generic, but I have never heard anyone say they are looking forward to the Olympics locally, pre covid, and post, I hear a lot of people wtf'ing it's going ahead. It's completely anecdotal, but as a private teacher at 4 different schools I have a wide pool.

I think this is now the standard reaction of first-worlders whenever something like this is planned for their city. Everybody knows the costs are massive (and often being siphoned off by corrupt people) and the upsides very few; most people are unlikely to attend the events (they are typically very expensive); and the pain of construction will add misery to their everyday life for years in advance.

The press typically reverts this outlook by going full-jingo once the event happens, and then "you" will be "proud" that your homeland could be so excellent and well-organized and now attracting even more tourists. Expect a horrifying overflow of basic nationalism.

For Japan this will now be harder, but I'm sure a narrative will eventually emerge about resilience in the face of adversity and "showing the world" some of that proverbially-unbreakable Japanese spirit. And you won't have to endure a month of terrible commuting.

Re: Japan to stage Tokyo Olympics without overseas spectators

#60

Post by h0nd »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #39
HeavenFox wrote: post #18

This seems like the worst outcome for Japan and best outcome for the IOC. Japan incurs all the cost of hosting the Olympics while reaping none of the tourist yen, while the IOC gets paid the broadcasting fee. At this point the optimal outcome for Japan is probably to cancel the game altogether. Is it an example of the political pull of the IOC? The Asian culture of face-saving? Or plain old sunk cost fallacy? I hones…

What's the alternative, really? Essentially letting billions of $ of infrastructure go to complete waste? That said, I agree with you. Then again the host city always pulls the shit end of the stick when organizing such an event.

Maybe it would be an option to NOT treat every foreigner as a possible threat, but as a welcomed guest to visit Japan and the Olympic games.

edit: I am surprised to see YC attracting people supporting discrimination.

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