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Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

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Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#711
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t downvote. I’m also being downvoted and definitely don’t think people’s goals are to ‘rewrite history’ here. But also the list you mentioned is just that. A list. Behind every bullet point there’s a grimmer meaning, if a meaning at all outside of gaining more support from the socialist groups who had more political sway at the time. No sane person would place Nazi ‘state education’ in the same class as a moder…

I would argue that there was a grimmer meaning behind similar promises from every socialist leader, except those where there was no meaning at all other than cynical pursuit of power (like Stalin). Despite that, the Nazis did gain support from many socialists, and ultimately, like so many other governments that rose to power with socialist promises, failed to live up to those promises. But I don't think Hitler himsel…

> I just think people should acknowledge the role that socialists played in helping him rise to power.

I think practically everyone, including myself agrees with that. And I pointed that out in my original posts. Power doesn't occur in a vacuum and the Nazi's capitalized on peoples (mostly unfounded) fears and anger to grow their base. My original point was that the Nazi's themselves were not socialists. Referencing a name they came up with and their published propaganda was not a convincing argument to say otherwise.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my point of view as an American who has lived in Europe (Sweden, later Germany, and the UK) my framing of the US political situation is as follows: Democrats tend to be authoritarian and pro-centralization of power. Republicans tend to be anti-authoritarian and pro-decentralization. Both major parties have a long history of deep corruption. They've essentially colluded to rob the American people blind. Unfortuna…

Um, no one would ever label Republicans "anti-authoritarian". When your ideology extends from rules concerning which water fountain you can drink from, it's hard to shake the authoritarian label.

Depends on the definitions.

How would you describe a militia that distrust the authority of the government?

Is that antiauthoritarian?

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, most of the stuff Bernie and AOC advocate for are considered fairly centrist policies in western Europe. Universal healthcare coverage? Paid parental leave? These are the norm in western Europe, they're not radical in the least.

In my country, the party (and we have representatives from ~20 parties that are in nationally significant seats of power, 9 parties in the national assembly) that is considered the most "right-wing" actually supports _expanding_ the universal healthcare (EDIT: specifically, they want it to include dentistry, which we currently pay for except for in rare circumstances.) It's not a centrist policy at all - the parties…

Yeah, instead of 'centrist' I probably should've said 'mainstream'.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not how politics work in the rest of the world. Between radicalised parties it looks like that everywhere. When people have only two choices, by necessity each choice contains radicalised fringe elements. For some reason societal factors in the US give these elements a huge presence, which I don't really understand.

Its very simple for the other side to push their agenda and cater to their crowd "See , we told you the other side was crazy" 911 truthers & marxists have always existed, however its only when the "mainstream" of the other side chose to hand the fringe a megaphone, that they came to the fore. This was not done for debate or charity. It was to score cheap political points in the age of clickbait. Extra Bonus: they got…

Interesting. That explains why all the crazies have the microphone lately. The mainstream of the other side is giving it to them, to use them as a freak show.

And the reason it's blowing up now is because the media monopoly is over. Back when "the media" was ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, UPI, and then-centrist New York Times and Washington Post, nobody was giving the crazies the microphone, on either side. But when Fox and talk radio came on the right, and CNN on the left (and many of the former-center media moved left), then there were people with a slant, and therefore with a motivation to make the other side look silly.

But these people (on both sides) need to reconsider what they're doing. They're making the other side look silly to the mainstream, but they're also helping the fringe of the other side recruit. That may not be a very wise policy...

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is not how politics work in the rest of the world." A lot of the debate around Brexit in the UK worked exactly that way - on both sides.

From my outside observer perspective of both US and UK politics the level of hatred and animosity in the US appears orders of magnitude higher.

Unfortunately, if you aren’t here on the ground floor in America, you are getting information from the news which has a tendency to only amplify the extreme cases that are “newsworthy“

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my point of view as an American who has lived in Europe (Sweden, later Germany, and the UK) my framing of the US political situation is as follows: Democrats tend to be authoritarian and pro-centralization of power. Republicans tend to be anti-authoritarian and pro-decentralization. Both major parties have a long history of deep corruption. They've essentially colluded to rob the American people blind. Unfortuna…

Um, no one would ever label Republicans "anti-authoritarian". When your ideology extends from rules concerning which water fountain you can drink from, it's hard to shake the authoritarian label.

>...no one would ever label Republicans "anti-authoritarian"...

A strange charge of the "limited-government" party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_the_Rep...

>...your ideology extends from rules concerning which water fountain you can drink from...

The ex-Confederate, Democrat, southern states had segregated water fountains. On the other hand, here's Wikipedia's explanation of where Republican ideology originated:

>The GOP was founded in 1854 by opponents of the Kansas–Nebraska Act,[11] which allowed for the potential expansion of chattel slavery into the western territories. The party supported economic reform and classical liberalism while opposing the expansion of slavery.[12][13] Abraham Lincoln was the first Republican president. Under the leadership of Lincoln and a Republican Congress, slavery was banned in the United States in 1865.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_State...

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um, no one would ever label Republicans "anti-authoritarian". When your ideology extends from rules concerning which water fountain you can drink from, it's hard to shake the authoritarian label.

Depends on the definitions. How would you describe a militia that distrust the authority of the government? Is that antiauthoritarian?

No, it's just a preference for a different authority than the status quo government.

Bolsheviks in Czarist Russia weren't anti-authoritarians, they were just preferred a different authority than was established.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not mean the confederate flag: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-oth...

OK, now we are talking. And we've also just proven my point together as well: so many people have been calling ordinary people nazis that when someone actually bring nazi symbols and colours to the convention I refuse to believe it. (And yes, I will check more sources before I claim this happened.) Edit: read and reread the link. I couldn't find anything to connect the Republican party and all those flags? I specific…

There isn't a smoking gun. That's not how dog whistles work. But the supporters who agree with this stuff feel heard and emboldened.

And there are lots of other data points to go with it. The singer of the national anthem on that stage, for instance, disagrees that Disney no longer sells "Song of the South", an explicitly racist film from their archives.

These things all work together to paint a clear picture.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear that's the case. CPAC hasn't been willing to deny it. And the Charlottesville protestors did use that symbol: https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-oth...

How is it relevant to CPAC that it was used in Charlottesville?

Because all the Charlottesville people vote for that party.

Because people on that stage, even, openly agree with the things the Charlottesville people marched about.

Re: Gab has been hacked and 70GB of data leaked

#720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Charlottesville protestors used that symbol explicitly (see link). CPAC hasn't come out with a denial that their stage was that shape intentionally. If it wasn't, they would have. https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/08/12/flags-and-oth...

> CPAC hasn't come out with a denial that their stage was that shape intentionally. If it wasn't, they would have. We are quickly approaching "have you stopped beating your wife" at this point. I don't think it would change anything if they came out and said it wasn't intentional. Some friends of me got viciously attacked last year over some perceived fraud. They responded by publishing their books sinve they had not…

That's very different from "Your supporters used a Nazi symbol, then your stage had that symbol, and you won't say explicitly that you aren't connected to Nazis."
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