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Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#231

Post by jakelazaroff »

syshum wrote: post #223
sudosysgen wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are at least nominally directly elected by their constituents and beholden to them, which is why they are protected when engaging in politics. If you think they do not represent them, then maybe the solution is to develop better union structures that are more democratic and representative. But by and large, teachers do not support the Libertarian party and instead favour the Democratic party, quite heavily in…

The libertarian party supports School Choice, Actual Education for children, and less protectionism based on "seniority" So it is no wonder that unionized teachers would oppose the Libertarian Party, libertarians want children to get a good education and allow parents to choose the type of education their child gets, taking away large amounts of power from Teachers who believe they should supplant parents and "know b…

At best it's very arguable whether school choice results in children getting a better education.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#232

Post by AnimalMuppet »

whydoyoucare wrote: post #180

I am of the firm belief that Unions are a thing that are extremely good in theory, but rarely work out in practice. They kill innovation, profits and skills and turns a competitive workforce into a mediocre one. :-(

I agree. But it turns out that the absence of unions doesn't work out in practice, either...

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#234

Post by sammorrowdrums »

fireball_blaze wrote: post #107
sodality2 wrote: post #2

Detailed, 6 step instructions on how to open a ballot and mark no? Thanks, amazon. This is almost as scummy as asking the city to change traffic lights so union organizers have a harder time talking to workers in between shifts. https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/jefferson-county-now-say...

Also reference Amazon's "Do it without dues" site: https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/

I kind of want a parody site, like "doitwithoutshoes.com", my first thought had been "doitwithoutjews.com" given it sounds the same, but obviously it would have to be very tastefully done to not come across as cheap or anti-Semitic.

The shoes idea works as you have to pay for them. Why pay for shoes? You know you get exactly the same benefits at Amazon while barefoot?

A classic similar example used to be the "godhatesfigs.com" parody of the Westboro Baptist church's similar slogan (sadly gone now) - with a bible passage where Jesus curses a fig tree.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#235

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

mc32 wrote: post #225
kennywinker wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people voluntarily join a company too A choice between starvation and warehouse job at amazon where you’re penalized for taking a bathroom break is not a choice made freely.

I agree. We need better labor laws. I just don’t like having a middle woman or man in there because they have other motives.

How do you get better labor laws without middle men groups lobbying? The same Amazon workers have neither the time nor energy themselves.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#236

Post by azinman2 »

andrepd wrote: post #229
fxtentacle wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, just wow. "Don’t buy that dinner, don’t buy those school supplies, don’t buy those gifts because you won’t have that almost $500 you paid in dues." It seems Amazon's main argument for why people shouldn't join a union is that Amazon's wages are so low that they cannot financially afford to. That's almost like saying "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place."

"But higher wages can buy many dinners." "Explain how!" "Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

Simpsons FTW

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#237

Post by [deleted] »

tshaddox wrote: post #179
cperciva wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions are just another type of corporation. No, unions are not just another type of corporation. They are a very special type of corporation: One which is exempt from anti-trust laws.

Is that even true? Quick Google searches seem to show several instances of antitrust accusations against non-profits including trade unions and professional associations. There does seem to be a basic exemption for trade unions, but it seems that trade unions can lose that exemption for behaving in certain ways.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#238

Post by phabora »

balabaster wrote: post #95

Full disclosure: I've always been anti-union for my own personal approach to life. I do see the value in unions, I've just always, to this point, been a go-it-alone-and-fight-my-own-battles kind of person. I don't want to be beholden to a union or their rules any more than I want to be beholden to an employer beyond my contractual obligations for which I'm paid. That said, people should take note of what happened whe…

Some people are privileged enough to be able to get jobs where they don’t need collective bargaining to get decently fair compensation and decent working conditions.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#239

Post by HarryHirsch »

chrisseaton wrote: post #128
HarryHirsch wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common experience is that performance reviews are bullshit and that scores are determined by warm fuzzies and management's political needs. Rachel has story after story. If you are politically astute, by all means don't join the union, but all this talk about "results" doesn't sound as if you are.

Do you not have the imagination to think of any situation where the majority of workers may want something that's not in your interests? For example you morally support allowing new people to enter your field but the union is mostly comprised of more established people and they vote for credentialism to restrict supply. Probably I'm very aligned with my employer on wanting to lower barriers to entry for the field!

Do you not have the imagination to think of any situation where the majority of workers may want something that's not in your interests?

Consensus-building and making of viable compromises has always been part of governance, any institution comprises people with diverse, sometimes competing interests.

That said, the usual workplace conflict between employee and management is about working conditions and promotion. And for that it's useful to have a paid witness on your side, because HR is always working for the employer.

Codes of conduct are fashionable these days, but at the end of the day they are upheld by HR, which will always work in favour of the company.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#240

Post by phabora »

arachnids wrote: post #208
balabaster wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what it means to live in a "right to work" state. I assume that means that everyone has a right to reasonably paid employment? I don't understand how this situation could come to be. What if there were no employers? That situation can only occur if there are enough jobs to maintain gainful employment of every citizen of the state. In such a situation I would likely only remain around as long as there was…

"Right to work" is American euphemism for your employer being able to fire you at will for no cause

Not really euphemism. More of an Orwellian term.
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