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Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#221

Post by jakelazaroff »

SilasX wrote: post #201
rtpg wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't your boss telling you how to do that though. The direct power imbalance is pretty different, I think.

Then I don’t understand the outrage. What’s offensive about instructions on how to fill out a ballot above and beyond the fact of them asking you to vote no? The GGP seemed to think that there was something particularly bad about the detailed six page instructions. But the GP correctly pointed out they do the same thing in regular government elections (to milk as many voters as they can).

> What’s offensive about instructions on how to fill out a ballot above and beyond the fact of them asking you to vote no?

Nothing. The outrage is about them telling you to vote no. If they were trying to help you fill out your ballot in good faith, there wouldn't be a problem.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#222

Post by statstutor »

rtpg wrote: post #43
duxup wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got instructions from more than one party this past fall on how to fill out a ballot and mail it early and etc.

It wasn't your boss telling you how to do that though. The direct power imbalance is pretty different, I think.

Political campaigns remind everyone to vote (raise turnout) - including the people who are now indignant and will vote against you.

It seems possible that Amazon may not have properly accounted for that.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#223

Post by syshum »

sudosysgen wrote: post #134
mc32 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like some unions tell their members to vote for this or that party? I’m still waiting for the Teachers’ Union to endorse the Libertarian party one day soon -I’m sure it’s gonna happen.

Unions are at least nominally directly elected by their constituents and beholden to them, which is why they are protected when engaging in politics. If you think they do not represent them, then maybe the solution is to develop better union structures that are more democratic and representative. But by and large, teachers do not support the Libertarian party and instead favour the Democratic party, quite heavily in…

The libertarian party supports School Choice, Actual Education for children, and less protectionism based on "seniority"

So it is no wonder that unionized teachers would oppose the Libertarian Party, libertarians want children to get a good education and allow parents to choose the type of education their child gets, taking away large amounts of power from Teachers who believe they should supplant parents and "know better".

This has never been more clear than in the Age of COVID where the hypocrisy of Teachers and their union has been on full display with their refusal to teacher (aka their job)

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#224

Post by wickedsickeune »

whydoyoucare wrote: post #180

I am of the firm belief that Unions are a thing that are extremely good in theory, but rarely work out in practice. They kill innovation, profits and skills and turns a competitive workforce into a mediocre one. :-(

They kill innovation in worker exploitation :(

> turns a competitive workforce into a mediocre one

Because the people employed in Amazon warehouses will stop self improving and being competitive, but only if they join a union.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#225

Post by mc32 »

kennywinker wrote: post #197
mc32 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree with your points. However, using that line of thinking people voluntarily join a company too. Often to work for a company with union rep one HAS to join, whether one agrees or not, so it’s not entirely voluntary in a strict sense. All this said, I do believe Amazon is treating their warehouse workers unfairly and they deserve pushback though I admit I do not favor bringing in a Union due to my past member exper…

> people voluntarily join a company too A choice between starvation and warehouse job at amazon where you’re penalized for taking a bathroom break is not a choice made freely.

I agree. We need better labor laws. I just don’t like having a middle woman or man in there because they have other motives.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#226

Post by twh270 »

balabaster wrote: post #194
tyingq wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear to perhaps be from the UK (saw "honour"). Employees in the UK have quite a lot more protection by default than they do in the US. I do respect your go-it-alone-and-fight-my-own-battles position, but consider that you might feel differently if you were in a US "right to work" state.

I don't know what it means to live in a "right to work" state. I assume that means that everyone has a right to reasonably paid employment? I don't understand how this situation could come to be. What if there were no employers? That situation can only occur if there are enough jobs to maintain gainful employment of every citizen of the state. In such a situation I would likely only remain around as long as there was…

I don't know how things work in the UK, but here in the states various bills/acts are often given misleading names because politics. In this case, "right to work" means, basically, the right to take a job without either having to join a union or being prohibited from joining a union.

There's debate over what the impact of "right to work" is, and of course, what role unions should play.

Another term that might interest you is "at will employment". This one means that your employer can fire you at any time for any reason that isn't illegal; and, you can leave your employer at any time for any reason that isn't illegal. This one is also argued intensely as to whether it is more favorable to the employer, employee, or neither.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#227

Post by aidenn0 »

whydoyoucare wrote: post #180

I am of the firm belief that Unions are a thing that are extremely good in theory, but rarely work out in practice. They kill innovation, profits and skills and turns a competitive workforce into a mediocre one. :-(

At a minimum, the credible threat of unionization is necessary to protect worker's rights. Amazon treated employees in a way that made it clear that they did not see the threat as credible. If Amazon gets destroyed by unionization, maybe the next company will treat their employees better.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#228

Post by criddell »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #213
simsla wrote: post #183

I hope enough people vote yes. The way FC workers are treated is not ok. It's the main blemish on a company I otherwise respect. "Other companies treat FC staff like shit too" is not an excuse. Disclaimer: Work for Amazon (corp / tech side). Opinion my own, obviously.

> "Other companies treat FC staff like shit too" is not an excuse. How is this not an excuse? Most people would switch to Walmart/Target/Bestbuy or any other retailer if the price on Amazon is higher.

I wonder how price sensitive Amazon shoppers actually are. I know I buy from there mostly because of the low friction and wide selection. I rarely check prices.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#229

Post by andrepd »

fxtentacle wrote: post #121
fireball_blaze wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also reference Amazon's "Do it without dues" site: https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/

Wow, just wow. "Don’t buy that dinner, don’t buy those school supplies, don’t buy those gifts because you won’t have that almost $500 you paid in dues." It seems Amazon's main argument for why people shouldn't join a union is that Amazon's wages are so low that they cannot financially afford to. That's almost like saying "You're too poor to fight for your rights. Know your place."

"But higher wages can buy many dinners."

"Explain how!"

"Money can be exchanged for goods and services"

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#230

Post by syshum »

duxup wrote: post #69
mc32 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like some unions tell their members to vote for this or that party? I’m still waiting for the Teachers’ Union to endorse the Libertarian party one day soon -I’m sure it’s gonna happen.

I'm waiting for the Libertarian party to embrace drivers licenses ;)

We would if drivers licenses where limited in scope and purpose to only proving ones ability to operate safely on the public road ways.
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