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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

bbc.com

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#381

Post by twiddling »

thejackgoode wrote: post #318
NovaJehovah wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll probably get downvoted, but I strongly disagree with this mindset. Raising kids is not a fun hobby or a side project that will fit into a neat little drawer in your life. You have an obligation to do the best that you can. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's stressful. Like it or not, that's what you signed up for. So step up. Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're pr…

> You have an obligation to do the best that you can This reads like an expectation mindset that with high probability will end up hurting you, your kid and your relationship. Somewhere here belongs the put-oxygen-mask-on-yourself-first metaphor

As someone with older children, I can attest. Also the attitude can lead to a lot of tension with your co-parent.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#382

Post by meowster »

jkubicek wrote: post #272
meowster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

That seems normal to me? I'm well-past the teenage years, and I wouldn't commit to a weekend activity without double-checking with the rest of my family first.

I think it's "normal" only in the sense that most everyone behaves this way today, but I don't think it should be that way.

By the time I was older in Scouts, my siblings were in college and my parent could drive me to wherever, or at least to the meeting place where I could carpool. The times when my parent wasn't available, I took the city bus.

I imagine if one of my siblings was was the same age and our parent could only drive one of us, the other would take the bus.

The first time I took the bus, my parent went with me to show me how, and then let me do it myself going forward.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#383

Post by paddlepop »

cashewchoo wrote: post #307
dom96 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been wondering the same, the BBC article explains: > the most extreme version of which involves leaving a baby on their own to "cry it out", in an effort to encourage their babies to sleep for longer stretches so their parents can get some much-needed rest. I'm not a parent but that sounds pretty sensible to me. Odd of the BBC to call it "extreme".

We sleep-trained our first starting at about 6 months old, and we're about to do the same with our second. The strategy we used was some kind of incremental back-off. Put them down, light out, leave. Wait 5 mins. Go on, give them a little hug or back pat, leave. Wait 10. Then 15. Then 20. Then 30. Then stay at 30 until they fall asleep. Next night, 10, 15, 20, 30, 30, 30... next night, 15, 20, 30, 30, 30.... At some…

This is called the Ferber method and it worked very well for us as well. Note to others considering using it, the method is just as much about the ritual leading up to sleep (bath, reading a book, etc)

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#384

Post by arbitrage »

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

> The baby cried and cried and cried.

What did you expect having a child to be like?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#385

Post by [deleted] »

watwut wrote: post #303
meowster wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I volunteer with a U.S. Scout troop. I see boys that don't know whether or not they can go on an activity/campout because they have to ask their parents if they're free that day/weekend. I try to tell them their old enough (most are teenagers) that they should start deciding for themselves what activities they participate in. Most all of them just seem apathetic. I'm sure their parents are trying to do what is best f…

There is nothing new in that? When I was pre teen and teen, I definitely had to get parents permission for weekend campout. It seems to me normal that parent have a say in whether the non-adult child sleep at home. Plus there were weekend activities woth familly I was expected to participate in - trips, familly visits, grandpa birthsday, etc. So I would ask. I mean, idea that 16-17 years old goes for campout without…

[deleted]

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#386

Post by dsego »

bluGill wrote: post #277
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good advice, as far as I'm concerned. The decision to skip breastfeeding is irreversible if you stop producing milk, whereas you can always switch to formula. So it makes sense to try breastfeeding first and see if it works for you.

Make sure you get help. Breastfeeding isn't obviously easy, even though it seems like it should be. There are a lot of tricks need to get the baby to take it. Don't give up easily. There is a reason formula samples are free in the early days, it doesn't take too many "just this once since it is on hand" events and mom is unable to produce any milk. Then you discover that formula is not cheap when it is too late. That…

Yes, my wife had so many problems in the beginning. The newborn had to stay in the hospital for a week to treat an infection and there it was bottle fed. The milk wasn't going so the breasts needed massaging to clear the ducts and get it started. Then the baby wouldn't latch properly, she was also weak and sleepy from jaundice. We had to buy those little silicone nipple shields and that helped. It was a lot of struggle and my wife almost gave up on several occasions. But now after 11 months she's still breastfeeding and hasn't even used her breast pump or given formula ever. There is a friend of hers who pretty much gave up immediately and started using formula. It seems to be a trend, since we always get praised by our pediatrician and other doctors for continuing breastfeeding.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#387

Post by alistairSH »

krapht wrote: post #373
alistairSH wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But did the overbooked childhood enable that, or was the kid destined for a top-notch uni regardless? The students gaining admissions to top unis are largely self-motivated, extremely smart, and would have chosen high-quality activities on their own. Looking back at my own childhood, I chose my sports, music, and other activities. My parents enabled them, but never forced me into them. Would forcing me to play an add…

I have the same experience; I think what school you get to attend is just the happy byproduct arising from your internal combination of intelligence, self-motivation, and emotional resilience (mostly! I am speaking in generalities). I remember reading a study about this exact topic and it turns out name brand has little to do with career success in meritocratic career paths - i.e., upper-middle white collar professio…

Now you're just being silly. Nothing good ever came from that backwater university. ;)

Flashes back to massive football losses... "It's alright, it's ok, we're gonna be your boss someday!" College students can be such insecure jerks.

(but, yeah, totally agree - the vast majority of students will do just fine with a degree from Big State U)

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#388

Post by neolog »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #322
bluGill wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odds are good the couple you mention are in fact negative net worth, or close to it. They don't own the car. Every time their house goes up in value they refinance and take the cash out to pay for the vacation. Generally those with a significant net worth live more modest lives - older cars (they might buy new, but that is because they know if they do the maintenance it will last for 15-20 years). The house might be…

In the US, a doctor/lawyer dual income couple should be earning at least $300k, if not $500k+ per year. Source: https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie... Even with $600k to $800k ($4k to $6k per month loan payments) of student loans, they should be able to pull off a decent lifestyle and be positive net worth by their mid 40s.

That link needs an account. Maybe a screenshot or something

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#389

Post by NovaJehovah »

bihla wrote: post #369
NovaJehovah wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll probably get downvoted, but I strongly disagree with this mindset. Raising kids is not a fun hobby or a side project that will fit into a neat little drawer in your life. You have an obligation to do the best that you can. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's stressful. Like it or not, that's what you signed up for. So step up. Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're pr…

It's possible you're coming from a very different background than me... I can understand your point of view if your context is being raised under real impoverished conditions; I agree a parent should do anything they can to meet a necessary level of stability for the child. But this comment makes me think of what is more likely familiar to members of this forum, where parents use their children to serve their own ego…

> the "wellbeing of your child" is not really a question

Mental health, substance abuse, and suicide statistics, including among the middle and upper classes, would seem to strongly indicate otherwise.

> It's possible you meant to make a more sympathetic point, but my first impression is that the comment espouses an actively harmful idea about the relation between parent and a child.

So "try hard, make sacrifices, and do your best" is now considered problematic? The relativism in this mindset is absurd. Nobody here would claim that there's no right or wrong way to design a distributed system, or that there are no right or wrong ideas about religion, but we have to pretend it's the case with parenting so we don't hurt anyone's feelings?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#390

Post by knolax »

nsxwolf wrote: post #374
mucholove wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What method of sleep training did you use? This article lists 6! https://www.todaysparent.com/baby/baby-sleep/most-popular-sl...

An informal application of #1, the Ferber method. On 4 kids. Worked great. Or seemed to, anyway. You can't know if anything actually works or if the baby just decided to start sleeping on his or her own.

> You want to continue to check on your baby at preset intervals but never feed or rock them to sleep

Sounds like childrearing done by a robot.

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