The unusual ways Western parents raise children • Hacker News Board

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#321

Post by watwut » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

rajin444 wrote: post #194

Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

What makes you feel certain of this? I may be wrong, but a majority of human history seems to point to (roughly) "spanking is ok, anything more is not". Children do not understand logic the same as adults.

For majority of human history, even sever child abuse was seen as unfortunate thing that however happens, so what.

The adult domestic violence was also accepted a lot.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#322

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #298

ajmadesc wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Queue the Doctor / Lawyer married couple with 2.5 kids who vacation twice a year, lease German cars, and have positive net worth crying about 'only being middle class'.

Odds are good the couple you mention are in fact negative net worth, or close to it. They don't own the car. Every time their house goes up in value they refinance and take the cash out to pay for the vacation. Generally those with a significant net worth live more modest lives - older cars (they might buy new, but that is because they know if they do the maintenance it will last for 15-20 years). The house might be…

In the US, a doctor/lawyer dual income couple should be earning at least $300k, if not $500k+ per year.

Source:

https://www.medscape.com/slideshow/2020-compensation-overvie...

Even with $600k to $800k ($4k to $6k per month loan payments) of student loans, they should be able to pull off a decent lifestyle and be positive net worth by their mid 40s.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#323

Post by decafninja » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

rapsey wrote: post #14

Western culture is different in a significant way. Individualism is valued much more than in the east. This is an established sociological fact.

One of the biggest ways I see is the idea of when to move out of your parents' household.

At least in American society, it's considered imperative to move out ASAP - when leaving for college, or at the latest, upon graduating. Even if it means dumping a huge portion of your paycheck into rent for place barely 15 minutes from your parents' home.

In other societies it's more common to live with your parents well into adulthood. Marriage is often the point where you have to move out.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#324

Post by watwut » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #281

zeku wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't believe this is true. I was spanked my whole childhood. It never taught me one single thing, because I just wanted to know "why" X was bad and I was never told. It was no more effective than just telling me no. People use spanking as a crutch, it really has no place in the child raising toolkit imo.

Depends on the kid, and depends on when. When you were one, you might have listened to "no", but there are plenty of kids who don't. And it matters because of things like wanting to play in the street. I can't tell a one-year-old what two tons of car moving at 30 miles an hour is going to do to them. But I can train them that every time they play in the street, it hurts. That sounds cruel. On the other hand, letting…

Have you ever met 1 years old? Cause this sounds like you did not and are just imagining things.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#325

Post by jqgatsby » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

eurusdac wrote: post #214

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I agree, my advice to any new parent would be to listen carefully to advice about how not to drown your child while bathing them, and how to make sure they're not suffocated by their bedding. Both real issues where some simple practices avoid the small risk of an absolutely catastrophic outcome. Then take all other advice with a pinch of salt. Just follow your best instincts and do what seems right. Your child will b…

Hey, wait, what is the advice to avoid drowning, other than not leaving them alone? Is there some subtle hazard I’m unaware of?

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#326

Post by Berobero » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

rajin444 wrote: post #194

Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

What makes you feel certain of this? I may be wrong, but a majority of human history seems to point to (roughly) "spanking is ok, anything more is not". Children do not understand logic the same as adults.

I'm generally not in favor of spanking, but just some observations:

- It's easy to find people who were spanked that are in favor of spanking, people who were spanked that aren't in favor of spanking, and people who weren't spanked that aren't in favor of spanking. People who weren't spanked that are in favor of spanking seem almost non-existent.

- Just perusing Google Scholar and reading abstracts, studies of spanking much more often than not link it to negative outcomes, most commonly "externalizing behavior". And while some studies find it not meaningfully linked to negative outcomes, no study I have seen links it to positive outcomes.

- Children not understanding logic the same as adults does not entail that physical punishment be necessary in child rearing.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#327

Post by ramblerman » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:15 PM UTC

NovaJehovah wrote: post #309

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I'll probably get downvoted, but I strongly disagree with this mindset. Raising kids is not a fun hobby or a side project that will fit into a neat little drawer in your life. You have an obligation to do the best that you can. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's stressful. Like it or not, that's what you signed up for. So step up. Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're pr…

> Don't rationalize it with clichés like "love is all that matters"

Counter data point. My wife is Argentinian.

I'd say the values you see in her family primarily is "love does come first" and strict boundaries on kids. E.g. the adults are talking, go away.

When I compare that to my own nieces and nephews, they have little boundaries, are quite lethargic and can be quite arrogant. Yet their parents would all describe themselves by your standards.

We also tend to put our elderly in homes, an idea that is abhorrant to my wife.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is ideals are nice. But it's purely theory, mostly to serve your own sensibilities.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#328

Post by FlyingSnake » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

> Just raise your kids with love. Be compassionate, and patient. Find a doctor you trust. Don’t let people add to an already stressful endeavor.

This, right here is the most important lesson we learned from our experience. There is no right or wrong way and others judging/criticising you for your parenting style have no clue what crazy cocktail of genetics+environment+hidden factors are affecting your family.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#329

Post by carabiner » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:18 PM UTC

carabiner wrote: post #285

alistairSH wrote: post #29

Of all the "weird" things we do as parents in euro/anglo nations, sleeping arrangements seems nowhere near the top. IMO, the top "offender" is over-scheduling kid's activities. So many kids in my area have their days booked solid with sports, academic tutoring, music lessons. Approaching zero free time to enjoy being a kid. Edit - and this isn't really a western thing, "Tiger Mom" and similar probably pre-dates this…

My coworker did this with her son. She was spread thin with afterschool programs, sports, projects and so on. Well, the kid got into Caltech. Where he'll probably meet amazing people and receive an excellent education. So maybe it worked? How many YC founders had this overbooked childhood? I'd guess over 70%.

Hey notsureaboutpg just so you know, you're hellbanned and all of your comments are grayed out. Replies to you are disabled.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#330

Post by tibbydudeza » Wed, Feb 24, 2021, 6:19 PM UTC

madcaptenor wrote: post #137

tibbydudeza wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drop the kids of at school/daycare/grandparents - come back home :).

This is harder these days. I remember hearing some speculation early in the pandemic that there would be a lot of first children coming out of it but very few second or greater children. The data on this should be starting to come out now.

I wonder how it will affect the divorce rate as well.