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Resignation

andymills.work

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Re: Resignation

#81

Post by threatofrain »

worik wrote: post #57
threatofrain wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the root of cancel culture is the freedom of association. Ultimately people either feel fraternity amongst each other or they don't. I might argue that the freedom to not bake cakes or employ gay people with regards to religious rights is also part of the freedom of association. People either feel the love or they don't.

Why is a "freedom" to not employ gay people a freedom? And why freedom of association? Why another person chooses to do with their genitals is generally no not your business. It is not a "freedom". It is prejudice and bigotry

It’s a freedom in the US because of the US Constitution and because of Supreme Court precedence. It’s reasonable to forecast that this will not change in your lifetime.

In that way I would argue these moral results, which speaks more loudly than moral actions or moral speech combined, hangs in the air like a moral odor as we discuss the disarmament of relations.

Re: Resignation

#82

Post by netrus »

ng12 wrote: post #43
netrus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People learn from mistakes when there are consequences. You are witnessing consequences. There are far more, specific stories of misconduct on Twitter than those acknowledged in this article. If they are untrue, why not specifically say so? Andy Mills is not going to prison. Being called out publically for toxic behavior towards colleagues is not exactly a ruined life. He will be fine (just not as fine as when peers…

> People learn from mistakes when there are consequences Oh please. If cancel culture were about learning from your mistakes we wouldn't haunt people for things they did decades ago.

It's possible to learn from other people's mistakes as well, I do believe that is happening at the moment.

But anyway: if there are no negative consequences, I seriously doubt the perpetrator will even consider their action a mistake.

Re: Resignation

#83

Post by prepend »

hilbertseries wrote: post #5

> And, of course, in 2018 I helped create and produce the most ambitious project I’ve ever worked on: Caliphate. > While I remain proud of our team and what we were able to accomplish with Caliphate, getting any aspect of any story wrong, by any degree, is a journalist’s worst nightmare. After Caliphate was corrected, in print and in audio, peers of mine in the audio industry, from outside of The Times, began to rais…

> When it came to fact-checking support for the project, the Times’ leadership told us that they had their own internal system in place for stories of this nature.

I found this odd and stupid. Just because NYT says they have a fact checking department doesn’t absolve me of critical thinking, source development, and my own confirmation. It also seems reasonable to validate this claim from NYT to understand how they fact check. It also seems like if there was a third party fact checking me, I’d be aware because they would start with info from me and they would talk with my sources who talked with me.

This makes me think how crazy it would be to not bug test my software because someone told me the company has a testbot. But I don’t see any tests anywhere and don’t see output of tests anywhere. And there’s a syntax error that would be found if anyone even tried to compile or run.

Re: Resignation

#84

Post by [deleted] »

dfabulich wrote: post #30
hilbertseries wrote: post #5

> And, of course, in 2018 I helped create and produce the most ambitious project I’ve ever worked on: Caliphate. > While I remain proud of our team and what we were able to accomplish with Caliphate, getting any aspect of any story wrong, by any degree, is a journalist’s worst nightmare. After Caliphate was corrected, in print and in audio, peers of mine in the audio industry, from outside of The Times, began to rais…

Indeed. Those who would like to know more may want to read the NYT's own repudiation of Caliphate. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/business/media/new-york-t... This Vulture article is a good overall summary of the timeline, which I would absolutely call a "scandal." https://www.vulture.com/2021/01/caliphate-controversy-new-yo... Those who are replying here to decry "cancel culture" are falling for his story. This…

[deleted]

Re: Resignation

#85

Post by zepto »

madrox wrote: post #79
AstralStorm wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, are you advocating for corporate cover-ups of bad behavior? Because "institutional failure" is an excellent way to diffuse blame and get nothing fixed.

Scapegoating an individual is also an excellent way to ensure nothing gets fixed. Was it a cover-up of bad behavior when Amazon refused to release the name and/or fire the engineer whose error caused the 2017 S3 outage? We don't fire or shame those people, and they arguably do just as much damage to the credibility of the organization they work for. Instead, a retrospective is held, they determine how it was possible…

It’s not comparable.

It’s both an institutional failure and an individual one.

We know bugs and mistakes happen.

If an organization has a QA or testing process and the code passed through the accepted processes and yet the still failed, we may not hold the engineer responsible.

If an engineer on the other hand, ships code which has not been tested, when a testing process exists, then we might well hold them responsible.

Re: Resignation

#86

Post by zepto »

worik wrote: post #57
threatofrain wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the root of cancel culture is the freedom of association. Ultimately people either feel fraternity amongst each other or they don't. I might argue that the freedom to not bake cakes or employ gay people with regards to religious rights is also part of the freedom of association. People either feel the love or they don't.

Why is a "freedom" to not employ gay people a freedom? And why freedom of association? Why another person chooses to do with their genitals is generally no not your business. It is not a "freedom". It is prejudice and bigotry

I agree that it’s bigotry.

Do we think people should be free to be bigoted?

Re: Resignation

#87

Post by zepto »

gabereiser wrote: post #71
worik wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is a "freedom" to not employ gay people a freedom? And why freedom of association? Why another person chooses to do with their genitals is generally no not your business. It is not a "freedom". It is prejudice and bigotry

I agree. Businesses shouldn’t be allowed bigoted freedoms.

Who defines what counts as bigoted?

Re: Resignation

#88

Post by [deleted] »

netrus wrote: post #82
ng12 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People learn from mistakes when there are consequences Oh please. If cancel culture were about learning from your mistakes we wouldn't haunt people for things they did decades ago.

It's possible to learn from other people's mistakes as well, I do believe that is happening at the moment. But anyway: if there are no negative consequences, I seriously doubt the perpetrator will even consider their action a mistake.

[deleted]

Re: Resignation

#89

Post by julianmarq »

The thing I find most notable here is the reason he's being forced out.

I mean, this guy probably does deserve to be fired... But Callimachi deserves to be fired right along with him, and she isn't. They were terrible at their jobs.

The reason here highlights two problems: First, that he might be being made the scapegoat, probably to distract from the huge failure of the organization as a whole that that podcast was. And second, that the twitter cancel culture mobs seemingly only want targets they find acceptable; they deliberately didn't target Callimachi but happily settled on him.

It highlights how hypocritical and toxic the cancel culture mentality is. And I don't think it will change if they keep on succeeding.

Re: Resignation

#90

Post by Kye »

julianmarq wrote: post #89

The thing I find most notable here is the reason he's being forced out. I mean, this guy probably does deserve to be fired... But Callimachi deserves to be fired right along with him, and she isn't. They were terrible at their jobs. The reason here highlights two problems: First, that he might be being made the scapegoat, probably to distract from the huge failure of the organization as a whole that that podcast was.…

Who's "they"? What's "cancel culture mentality"?
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