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Resignation

andymills.work

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Re: Resignation

#71

Post by gabereiser »

worik wrote: post #57
threatofrain wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the root of cancel culture is the freedom of association. Ultimately people either feel fraternity amongst each other or they don't. I might argue that the freedom to not bake cakes or employ gay people with regards to religious rights is also part of the freedom of association. People either feel the love or they don't.

Why is a "freedom" to not employ gay people a freedom? And why freedom of association? Why another person chooses to do with their genitals is generally no not your business. It is not a "freedom". It is prejudice and bigotry

I agree. Businesses shouldn’t be allowed bigoted freedoms.

Re: Resignation

#73

Post by wombatmobile »

stephen82 wrote: post #63
keyanp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26041829

Those who downvoted me think I support such behavior; I don't! You know what they say: what goes around, comes around. Those who go after anyone who has a different opinion than theirs, will face their own actions eventually, one way or another. What I have stated is a realization: you are not allowed to make mistakes anymore, because you are immediately condemned; period! This downvoting here proves my point 100%. W…

> Those who downvoted me think I support such behavior;

You don't know what those people think. That's the nature of downvoting. All you know is the aggregate score for your comment. That's the nature of this moderated comment system.

Re: Resignation

#74

Post by chris_wot »

ng12 wrote: post #43
netrus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People learn from mistakes when there are consequences. You are witnessing consequences. There are far more, specific stories of misconduct on Twitter than those acknowledged in this article. If they are untrue, why not specifically say so? Andy Mills is not going to prison. Being called out publically for toxic behavior towards colleagues is not exactly a ruined life. He will be fine (just not as fine as when peers…

> People learn from mistakes when there are consequences Oh please. If cancel culture were about learning from your mistakes we wouldn't haunt people for things they did decades ago.

This didn’t happen decades ago.

Re: Resignation

#75

Post by toiletfuneral »

jjeaff wrote: post #33
toiletfuneral wrote: post #3

I read the whole thing and i'm sorry, but a journalist from the NYT complaining about being misrepresented? lol get that shit out of here

The NYT is a venerable news organization. One of the few left. They don't get everything right, but when they get it wrong they retract. And in most cases, they also seem to do proper due diligence for their stories as well as follow proper journalistic standards.

I honestly want that to be true, believe me...did they ever come clean about the WMD's in Iraq? Or the lies about Maduro burning food?

Re: Resignation

#76

Post by wildermuthn »

stephen82 wrote: post #63
keyanp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26041829

Those who downvoted me think I support such behavior; I don't! You know what they say: what goes around, comes around. Those who go after anyone who has a different opinion than theirs, will face their own actions eventually, one way or another. What I have stated is a realization: you are not allowed to make mistakes anymore, because you are immediately condemned; period! This downvoting here proves my point 100%. W…

It’s hard to write a comment, knowing that ten years from now it will be even easier to pull up everything I have ever done or said, or perhaps even presumed to think.

At some point, when everyone’s skeletons come out of the closet, people will become more forgiving and more hopeful that people can change their behaviors. We’ll start judging people on what they can do in the future, not what they did in the past.

It’s easy to judge people on their past. It’s much harder to judge people on their unknown future. But we’ll get there.

Re: Resignation

#77

Post by AstralStorm »

madrox wrote: post #42

Perhaps failing is so normalized in tech that I'm naive to how the rest of the world thinks, but I don't think failures of the kind Caliphate made should cost someone their job no more than an outage should cost an engineer theirs. A blameless retrospective should occur with the appropriate updates to process so it can't happen again. This was an institutional failure, and I don't suddenly feel better about the accur…

Come on, are you advocating for corporate cover-ups of bad behavior? Because "institutional failure" is an excellent way to diffuse blame and get nothing fixed.

Re: Resignation

#78

Post by AstralStorm »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #58
hinkley wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saw a good sticker the other day: Giving rights to others is not taking rights away from you. It’s not pie.

Not really. Expanding rights to religious freedom means taking away certain right for others, see eg the gay wedding cake debacle. Expanding rights to "gender self-ID" treads on certain women's rights, see eg single-sex prisons and rape shelters, or the case of Jessica Yaniv in Canada. Expanding free speech rights means reducing people's right to not hear speech they find threatening or offensive. And those are just…

Rights are not in question, impact is.

Religious freedom does not include bigotry as that's not beneficial to anyone. Prisons in USA being terrible garbage does not excuse lack of freedom to gender identity which would harm many more.

Re: Resignation

#79

Post by madrox »

AstralStorm wrote: post #77
madrox wrote: post #42

Perhaps failing is so normalized in tech that I'm naive to how the rest of the world thinks, but I don't think failures of the kind Caliphate made should cost someone their job no more than an outage should cost an engineer theirs. A blameless retrospective should occur with the appropriate updates to process so it can't happen again. This was an institutional failure, and I don't suddenly feel better about the accur…

Come on, are you advocating for corporate cover-ups of bad behavior? Because "institutional failure" is an excellent way to diffuse blame and get nothing fixed.

Scapegoating an individual is also an excellent way to ensure nothing gets fixed.

Was it a cover-up of bad behavior when Amazon refused to release the name and/or fire the engineer whose error caused the 2017 S3 outage? We don't fire or shame those people, and they arguably do just as much damage to the credibility of the organization they work for. Instead, a retrospective is held, they determine how it was possible such a thing could happen, and new checks and balances come out of it. Often you can even read about the entire thing, as is the case in the example I mention[1].

The Caliphate situation tells me that such a thing will likely happen again at the New York Times without better process to prevent these issues. That the institution of journalism wants to blame the person instead of generate learnings, I'm inclined to think nothing changed.

[1] https://aws.amazon.com/message/41926/

Re: Resignation

#80

Post by uniqueid »

dfabulich wrote: post #30
hilbertseries wrote: post #5

> And, of course, in 2018 I helped create and produce the most ambitious project I’ve ever worked on: Caliphate. > While I remain proud of our team and what we were able to accomplish with Caliphate, getting any aspect of any story wrong, by any degree, is a journalist’s worst nightmare. After Caliphate was corrected, in print and in audio, peers of mine in the audio industry, from outside of The Times, began to rais…

Indeed. Those who would like to know more may want to read the NYT's own repudiation of Caliphate. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/business/media/new-york-t... This Vulture article is a good overall summary of the timeline, which I would absolutely call a "scandal." https://www.vulture.com/2021/01/caliphate-controversy-new-yo... Those who are replying here to decry "cancel culture" are falling for his story. This…

There was a decent episode about this story on Canadaland (a podcast about journalism) this week https://www.canadaland.com/podcast/357-califail
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