Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Resignation

andymills.work

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 113 posts

Re: Resignation

#31

Post by gabereiser »

jacques_chester wrote: post #15
gabereiser wrote: post #4

Cancel culture is a cancer. Having everything documented online doesn’t help. People are supposed to learn from mistakes. They are supposed to make them because we all make mistakes. There are mistakes that are considered table stakes for a role or a job and I’m for demotion of those individuals for it, but I don’t like seeing this cancel culture ruin lives. It’s very high school and immature.

I've no idea how you decided this was "cancel culture". It's a garden-variety cockup. Mistakes are not binary, some of them are worse than others. Messing up the spelling of someone's name is common and a subject of regular jest amongst journalists. Slightly misquoting someone might be subject to some kind of internal discipline, it will at least lead to a correction being published. Publishing mostly fiction without…

A Twitter campaign sounds like cancel culture. There are avenues to address misbehavior. There are ways to report inaccuracies. I’m not defending the man’s mistakes or his podcast. Like I said, there are some things that are table stakes, telling the truth at a news org should definitely be one.

His story isn’t unique though about how social media descends on an individual to ruin their lives. He mentioned how the campaign made its way into the NYT via Twitter. All I’m saying is that we are all human, we all make mistakes, we should all be given an opportunity to learn from and grow from those mistakes.

Does he need to be publicly visible in NYT’s, probably not considering the history.

Could he produce shows where he’s not asked to determine the truth but just report it, possibly.

There are levels to mistakes, I hear you, and to make a public post about it on his blog definitively shows he doesn’t exactly know why this is happening to him or he wants to make a big grand stand about it.

Doesn’t matter. My statement still stands. People make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes have nothing to do with their jobs and yet, canceled...

Re: Resignation

#32

Post by sadgrip »

irateswami wrote: post #26
jacques_chester wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've no idea how you decided this was "cancel culture". It's a garden-variety cockup. Mistakes are not binary, some of them are worse than others. Messing up the spelling of someone's name is common and a subject of regular jest amongst journalists. Slightly misquoting someone might be subject to some kind of internal discipline, it will at least lead to a correction being published. Publishing mostly fiction without…

Agreed, "journalists" should be held to a high standard for the information they disseminate. Have we all forgotten "A Rape on Campus" and the fallout for Rolling Stone?

Did you read the article by chance? The author wasn't "cancelled" on account of the misreporting. That was just what put a spotlight on him leading to cancelling him for unrelated actions.

Re: Resignation

#33

Post by jjeaff »

toiletfuneral wrote: post #3

I read the whole thing and i'm sorry, but a journalist from the NYT complaining about being misrepresented? lol get that shit out of here

The NYT is a venerable news organization. One of the few left. They don't get everything right, but when they get it wrong they retract. And in most cases, they also seem to do proper due diligence for their stories as well as follow proper journalistic standards.

Re: Resignation

#34

Post by stephen82 »

...so let me get this straight: you are not allowed to make mistakes in your life, because everything is digitally archived nowadays that can backfire at any time?!

What happened to

   * learn from your mistakes
   * trial and error
   * getting wiser as you grow up
   * growing up means talk less and think and act more
and all these kinds of questions?

Where are we going people?

I cannot imagine what young kids go through in this time and day when they do a mistake.

Are we forbidden from making something stupid and silly?

This is not normal everyone, not normal at all :/

Re: Resignation

#35

Post by free_rms »

ng12 wrote: post #25
jacques_chester wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've no idea how you decided this was "cancel culture". It's a garden-variety cockup. Mistakes are not binary, some of them are worse than others. Messing up the spelling of someone's name is common and a subject of regular jest amongst journalists. Slightly misquoting someone might be subject to some kind of internal discipline, it will at least lead to a correction being published. Publishing mostly fiction without…

Cancel culture is what happened after the revelations about the podcast. Some people got angry they felt he wasn't punished enough and turned to cancel culture to punish him instead.

It's concerning that that's the lever, though.

Break every rule of your profession and publish a bunch of BS? We'll give you another chance. Gave an inappropriate backrub 10 years ago? You're out!

He should have been fired for Caliphate and expressly for Caliphate.

Re: Resignation

#36

Post by chmod600 »

dfabulich wrote: post #30
hilbertseries wrote: post #5

> And, of course, in 2018 I helped create and produce the most ambitious project I’ve ever worked on: Caliphate. > While I remain proud of our team and what we were able to accomplish with Caliphate, getting any aspect of any story wrong, by any degree, is a journalist’s worst nightmare. After Caliphate was corrected, in print and in audio, peers of mine in the audio industry, from outside of The Times, began to rais…

Indeed. Those who would like to know more may want to read the NYT's own repudiation of Caliphate. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/18/business/media/new-york-t... This Vulture article is a good overall summary of the timeline, which I would absolutely call a "scandal." https://www.vulture.com/2021/01/caliphate-controversy-new-yo... Those who are replying here to decry "cancel culture" are falling for his story. This…

It seems he should have been removed. But it also seems like the "why" is important -- was it job performance or digging into his history?

Re: Resignation

#37

Post by zepto »

jjeaff wrote: post #33
toiletfuneral wrote: post #3

I read the whole thing and i'm sorry, but a journalist from the NYT complaining about being misrepresented? lol get that shit out of here

The NYT is a venerable news organization. One of the few left. They don't get everything right, but when they get it wrong they retract. And in most cases, they also seem to do proper due diligence for their stories as well as follow proper journalistic standards.

Journalistic standards like the ones they used with Scott Alexander?

Re: Resignation

#38

Post by iorrus »

smachiz wrote: post #20
iorrus wrote: post #11

Assuming his claims are correct it seems a pity to resign due to online pressure. In his position, and provided I had the support of the management I would have stayed and not let a baseless online smear campaign force me out. Leaving this way gives credence to those disparaging his character.

It looks far from baseless. I googled - people are attaching their names to this on twitter. It's not anonymous. It's not "I heard he did x". It's he did X to me. We'll find out if any of it is true - but I'm going to guess that a lot of it is. Hence, resigning before he can be fired. https://twitter.com/imontheradio/status/1343598441226792960?... https://twitter.com/brianabreen/status/1341921383354224640 Also, Radio…

Yes both those people seem credible and have no reason to make up their stories. I’m surprised he lasted so long, obviously he’s not trustworthy and unprofessional.

I do agree with her that most woman would not have gotten away with these kind of comments.

Re: Resignation

#39

Post by netrus »

gabereiser wrote: post #4

Cancel culture is a cancer. Having everything documented online doesn’t help. People are supposed to learn from mistakes. They are supposed to make them because we all make mistakes. There are mistakes that are considered table stakes for a role or a job and I’m for demotion of those individuals for it, but I don’t like seeing this cancel culture ruin lives. It’s very high school and immature.

People learn from mistakes when there are consequences. You are witnessing consequences. There are far more, specific stories of misconduct on Twitter than those acknowledged in this article. If they are untrue, why not specifically say so?

Andy Mills is not going to prison. Being called out publically for toxic behavior towards colleagues is not exactly a ruined life. He will be fine (just not as fine as when peers did not speak up).

Also "we all make mistakes". We are talking about an adult, who got a grown-up's salary, some mistakes are worse than others, and you should not make the same mistake again and again and again. Consequences help with that.

Re: Resignation

#40

Post by threatofrain »

gabereiser wrote: post #4

Cancel culture is a cancer. Having everything documented online doesn’t help. People are supposed to learn from mistakes. They are supposed to make them because we all make mistakes. There are mistakes that are considered table stakes for a role or a job and I’m for demotion of those individuals for it, but I don’t like seeing this cancel culture ruin lives. It’s very high school and immature.

At the root of cancel culture is the freedom of association. Ultimately people either feel fraternity amongst each other or they don't.

I might argue that the freedom to not bake cakes or employ gay people with regards to religious rights is also part of the freedom of association. People either feel the love or they don't.

Post reply on HN