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CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

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381–390 of 688 posts

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#381
post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the biggest challenges for large orgs is that the knowledge they need to do a given thing is almost always present inside the organization — but it's fragmented and scattered across different teams, roles, and balkanized administrative boundaries such that the big picture is almost never available. A high-quality consulting partner works to build the relationships and internal lines of communication that are n…

Critically, if someone within the org volunteers to organize and manage the cross departmental knowledge they'll be shut down by people within the company for trying to accumulate power or stepping into someone else's turf. Only an outsider can safely talk to everyone. They aren't a threat because they aren't part of the company and therefore can't take over.

It cannot be volunteer work. It has to be sponsored from the top. If it is, then a team of qualified FTEs can do this job similar to an external consultancy. But rarely will old-timer well-settled FTEs will leave their current position and take on this temporary risky gig.

Also, the end result and the path to get there isn't clear for FTEs – let's say they did the functional domain requirement gathering work – then who will implement it – they will have to contract out the development work – they may not be empowered to think and see through to the end goal fully.

On the other hand, for the top management folks – it is easier to temporarily empower the external consultants and terminate the engagement with them at any time – but they cannot do the same with FTEs due to employment laws etc.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#382
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most missteps happen early, dooming projects before anyone sits down to code This one is more insightful (in the big non-tech enterprise / government spaces). Because the takeaway for most HN developers who flip between projects should be: (1) learn how to recognize one of these projects & (2) stay away / find a new job when you do. You'll save years of your work.

How might you recognize a project like this?

I think a tell-tale sign is if they apply the waterfall approach.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#383
post #115

> Deloitte is the only contractor that can meet the project requirements, because configuration of the VAMS application is occurring using Deloitte’s propriety GovConnect platform. Therefore, no other contractor has rights or access to leverage the system to carry out O&M activities, such as the administration of the system, change and defect management and end user support. As the only contractor with the GovConnect…

US Digital Service Assemble!

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only do I think thats a strawman (I don't see that base level argument given that often on hn), but even if it wasn't, the truth is there is a lot, and I mean a fuckton , of money waste at the government level on IT projects. Trying to act like just because they aren't all a scam doesn't mean there isn't a systemic problem of waste that still needs to be addressed, and there are plenty of examples in even recent…

The story of Healthcare.gov is pretty much the poster for this. They didn’t need to bring in a bunch of clever people to figure out requirements, that was already done and the site just didn’t work. To fix it they had to bring in a team of tech experts, who largely just did tech things —- competently and at a lower cost than the contractors who did the first iteration. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com…

While true, the team that was chosen also did not had the experience with public facing sites.

The contract was given to a team used to do intranet websites in classical JEE format and the letting them lose in such a project, designing as they knew.

https://changelog.com/gotime/154

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#385
post #115

> Deloitte is the only contractor that can meet the project requirements, because configuration of the VAMS application is occurring using Deloitte’s propriety GovConnect platform. Therefore, no other contractor has rights or access to leverage the system to carry out O&M activities, such as the administration of the system, change and defect management and end user support. As the only contractor with the GovConnect…

Isn't Palantir doing something similar?

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#386
post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How might you recognize a project like this?

I think a tell-tale sign is if they apply the waterfall approach.

Didn't the guy who coined the term give it as an example of a development model that never worked?

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#387
post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These contracts are generally bloated, but if you've never seen how a $10M+ contract for things like this works you're probably thinking about it wrong. The actual development piece is a pretty small portion of the overall work. The bulk of it is figuring out all the requirements, wrangling legacy systems and data into some kind of shape that can either be interfaced with or imported, documentation, support (includin…

No, this is not cynical enough. Even the part you mentioned: 'wrangling data for legacy systems' does not cost that much, it's still a small piece of the pie. The 'bulk of it' goes to sales, BD, marketing, profits, layers of excess management, specialist consultants, accountants and lawyers. This contract is an example of 'modern world graft'. Healtchare.gov cost $1-2 Billion and it was also a mess until Google Engin…

> 'wrangling data for legacy systems' does not cost that much, it's still a small piece of the pie

Are you sure? Because I think it might possibly involve:

- interfacing with an old COBOL system

- interfacing with an old DB2/ORACLE/(legacy database) with a "very creative" Schema and even more creative indexes (or maybe none - who knows). More bonus points if it's not even ASCII encoded

- Production system runs on a VM serving an old classic ASP or PHP app

- Data can be exported through an XML from Hell but that takes 2h to export.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#388
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then why are you outsourcing that part? To what extent is this due to neo-liberal "small government" policies, where from the highest political levels - through lobbying - it is decided that outsourcing is a win-win that leads to financial savings and budgets that are cut, and later on cut some more, etcetera? I've witnessed the crazy dance of enterprise consultants in large corporations (not government) and it is…

Complexity management is the name of the game. On all levels: functional, technical, organizational.

On tasks where building the initial framework is the most expensive part, swapping out contractors only serves to abstract away complexity without reducing its cost.

It's better to have an in-house dev department in these cases even in the complexity side, if you realize that complexity in the contractor side is just as bad as complexity in the basic org.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#389
post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

I believe Deloitte just PMs the project and farms it out to a sub contractor. This is standard operating procedure.

I understand the Deloitte prefers heavily documented and waterfall development with overseas developers doing the work. Basically top heavy and expensive management and cheap dev resources.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#390
post #13

I just don't understand these software deals, the price is so high. At 44 million, you can hire 146 engineers each paid 300k for a full year. Trust me, you need much less to build something like this, and there's no excuse for it to suck so bad. I'm also curious, anyone know where the development actually happened? Did Deloitte further subcontracted out? Was it outsourced?

These contracts are generally bloated, but if you've never seen how a $10M+ contract for things like this works you're probably thinking about it wrong. The actual development piece is a pretty small portion of the overall work. The bulk of it is figuring out all the requirements, wrangling legacy systems and data into some kind of shape that can either be interfaced with or imported, documentation, support (includin…

If these guys can use eventbrite instead it can’t be that complicated.
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