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CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

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Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#201

Post by clintonb »

brundolf wrote: post #166
lmilcin wrote: post #17

I have worked with Deloitte on two projects (on clients' side, I would never willingly work for Deloitte). Generally expect them to do absolute minimum necessary to meet the contract. The code was obfuscated to ensure support contract. The people employed to write it were not interested in the quality in the slightest but were interested a lot in specifics of the contract.

Serious question: why doesn't the government have its own internal software development department at this point? One that's familiar with all the regulatory and bureaoucratic hurdles and the legacy systems, but doesn't have the incentive to grift. For the amount of money they spend on these contracts surely they could afford to pay competitive salaries?

It does: https://www.usds.gov/. It's my understanding that USDS also bids on projects, but isn't necessarily the go-to team for such work.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#202

Post by afavour »

stefan_ wrote: post #136
nojito wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data flows into legacy systems like VAERS

Have you seen the vaccination setups? It's just car queues! I'm sure nothing there "flows" without a whole lot of manual data entry. So now what, you are reporting this adverse event to VAMS who reports it to VAERS? There is no flow, it's all just duplicate effort from architecture astronauts.

Huh? States have lists of eligible vaccination recipients that they reach out to. It’s very much not just keeping track of a line of cars.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#203

Post by j45 »

WanderPanda wrote: post #191
j45 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a lot of $6-700/hr management consultants that don't know much about tech but are happy to channel their inner Steve Jobs to try and architect something. The 22 year olds might not be able to do it (I beg to differ), but can management consultants/accountants who barely took typing in school who have Excel as the height of their digital literacy be expected to have all the answers? By the time this gets t…

> Edit: Beware Management Consultants and Accountants encroaching into "IT". Their worlds are drying up because tech folks can learn business easier than business folks can learn tech. Sounds plausible but I sadly only observe the opposite of management consulting “drying up”

I agree on observing the opposite.

My hope is leaders with tech backgrounds can grow into that space. Its far more lucrative than most software only endeavours.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#204

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

imranq wrote: post #112
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're getting paid for a deliverable. Why do you expect free work?

No good engineer I've worked with only did the bare minimum. Usually it was 2x or 3x beyond that e.g. thinking about the customer, understanding the right technologies, designing for scale, etc.

The bare minimum is the deliverable. If it's "a working website that does X, Y, Z" and they deliver that, what is the problem? That's what was asked for.

> thinking about the customer, understanding the right technologies, designing for scale, etc.

If they were asked to design something for a customer then they're fulfilling what is asked - e.g., the bare minimum.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#205

Post by [deleted] »

zaroth wrote: post #115

> Deloitte is the only contractor that can meet the project requirements, because configuration of the VAMS application is occurring using Deloitte’s propriety GovConnect platform. Therefore, no other contractor has rights or access to leverage the system to carry out O&M activities, such as the administration of the system, change and defect management and end user support. As the only contractor with the GovConnect…

[deleted]

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#206

Post by NearAP »

bretpiatt wrote: post #185
freeone3000 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a governmental website. It must be usable by everyone . Less than two percent is not zero percent -- it's over a million people.

2% of traffic doesn't mean that 2% of users only have access to IE6. It may limit which computing device they can use but not supporting IE6 isn't blocking millions from your site, it is blocking them from using your site on all of their devices.

Probably not true. It means blocking them from using the site because they only have 1 or 2 devices and those are running IE.

The article talks about the fact that a lot of the seniors get help with their online stuff from the libraries (which are currently closed). What is the probability that folks like these have multiple devices at home and/or they can use them?

Years ago, a lot of my bosses at work (in Tech) still used IE. Lots of our clients used government issued computers which were locked down to IE, sometimes several versions behind.

At the end of the day, it boils down to - know who the actual users are.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#207

Post by afavour »

amscanne wrote: post #140
bbeesley wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Internet Explorer has less than a 2% market share in the US, so under normal circumstances (given the sacrifices you’d have to make everywhere else) not bothering to support is is often a sensible decision. When it’s an access to healthcare issue though you can’t really exclude 2% of users. That said, building something that works well on mobile (re your point b) but also works on internet explorer is a pretty tough…

> No reason you couldn’t build a basic bitches version of the site that works on old devices, then route traffic these based on user agent. Why isn’t this just the site? I love Spartan, ugly, functional sites. That’s what the government should build, always . They should have style guidelines that are basically “no style”. You’re not competing with anyone, there’s no need to look good. Function, function, function.

One reason that comes to mind is that a lot of people browse on mobile devices. These days a site really ought to be responsive to mobile viewports and a lot of “basic bitch” government sites are not.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#208

Post by throwaway3699 »

endisneigh wrote: post #9

It’s also amazing to me how much a custom skin of Django Admin costs. Has there been any research into what needs to happen to align government administrators incentives with the population? So much waste - why isn’t the government forcing Deloitte to fix? I have no familiarity with government contracts, but as far as I know with Big Tech contracts they’re definitely written to favor the Big Tech company in these typ…

Cutting taxes to half might force these guys to become more competitive. I don't see any incentives for the government to give up (I'm sure this benefits their friends at these firms) until forced to make hard decisions.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#209

Post by brundolf »

offtop5 wrote: post #200
brundolf wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: why doesn't the government have its own internal software development department at this point? One that's familiar with all the regulatory and bureaoucratic hurdles and the legacy systems, but doesn't have the incentive to grift. For the amount of money they spend on these contracts surely they could afford to pay competitive salaries?

For various reasons this wouldn't work, you have the various bands of government salary https://federalnewsnetwork.com/pay/2020/01/more-top-career-e... >But for a GS-15, step 10 in Washington, his or her salary should total roughly $185,509 in 2020. But due to the federal pay ceiling, that same GS-15, step 10 in Washington will make the limit of $170,800 this year. And that's the absolute Max, after you go to the tro…

That may be a low salary compared to FAAMNG, but it's quite reasonable for the rest of tech. It's a good bit more than I make with 6 years of experience in Austin, and I currently make almost twice as much as I did when I started.

They don't need industry-leading researchers, they need people who can build a maintainable business systems.

Re: CDC website built by Deloitte at a cost of $44M is abandoned due to bugs

#210

Post by j45 »

headmelted wrote: post #190
j45 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a lot of $6-700/hr management consultants that don't know much about tech but are happy to channel their inner Steve Jobs to try and architect something. The 22 year olds might not be able to do it (I beg to differ), but can management consultants/accountants who barely took typing in school who have Excel as the height of their digital literacy be expected to have all the answers? By the time this gets t…

So very much this when it comes to how easily money can be wasted on these kinds of deals. Can’t agree at all with the ageism though, which is wholly uncalled for.

I don't mean to support any ageism and would be happy to withdraw my age reference.

What that may leave is decision makers who don't always have a high enough level of digital or technical literacy.

Folks who are not competent in technology decisions and implementations being in positions of decision making and spending is the point I was trying to make.

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