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Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

swp.org.uk

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Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#501

Post by philjohn »

mattmanser wrote: post #238
philjohn wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, newspapers have escaped regulation for a hell of a long time - in the UK Leveson was defanged and the "part 2" that would have enacted real change was quietly dropped.

The UK has strong libel laws[1], which I can only assume act as a counter-weight, so that's a bad example really as it's more complicated than you make out. [1] far too strong in fact as far as I understand it

Doesn't stop stories designed to provoke outrage and generate clicks and shares in online form - e.g. "look at this asylum seeker who's got an 8 bed house in Knightsbrige and a bazillion pounds in benefits ... GRRRRR"

Even when said stories are patently false and designed to enrage and inflame public opinion.

See also all the papers who escaped any real consequences for hacking the voicemail of a murdered child (as well as various celebrities).

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#502

Post by simonh »

senorjazz wrote: post #474
simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

> They're sort of our equivalent of Antifa in that they are a significant organising presence in lefty street protests I can see the point you are trying to make being familiar with both, but for those who are not, this analogy is just wrong and confusing to those who do not know SWP and will think you are saying SWP have no qualms about using violence. That is wrong

I thought I explained my understanding of the SWP attitude to violence very clearly, so for what you say to be true someone would have to read just the Antifa comparison and not read the rest of my post, in which case I think that misunderstanding is on them.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#503

Post by colordrops »

root_axis wrote: post #499
colordrops wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A new protocol could conceivably prevent anyone from removing content without your consent, that's my point.

A protocol can't stop people from removing content from servers they control.

That's what they said about cryptocurrency before Satoshi came along. "You can't stop people from forging the coins in a ledger on their own servers".

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#504

Post by quickthrowman »

pjc50 wrote: post #465
antihero wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're pretty much loathed in the left. They're more like PETA than antifa, they cover up internal sexual assaults, have a bunch of cranks, and other groups have to put up with and try to prevent their continuous entryism, hijacking protests and other actions to self-promote. Lots of cranks (though probably less so than CPGB-ML who are full on tankies), and a giant pain in the backside. Nevertheless, whilst I chuckl…

> CPGB-ML who are full on tankies It remains astonishing that a number of these people did a full 180 turn to right-libertarians and from there to Brexiteers, eventually leading to Claire Fox, apologist for the bombing of Manchester, becoming a member of the House of Lords. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Fox

Not really, ideology doesn’t matter to (some) extremists, they’ll follow whoever uses the tools of fear and hate most effectively.

See the “Bernie Bros” who flipped into full Trumpists a few short months later in 2016. I’m sure if you look back at the Spanish Civil War and other divisive historical time periods you’ll find plenty of turncoats that flip from one extreme to another.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#505

Post by root_axis »

colordrops wrote: post #503
root_axis wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A protocol can't stop people from removing content from servers they control.

That's what they said about cryptocurrency before Satoshi came along. "You can't stop people from forging the coins in a ledger on their own servers".

And? What's your point? How does cryptocurrency prevent people from deleting content from servers they own?

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#506

Post by blacklight »

I consider the SWP a bunch of anachronistic dinosaurs who stubbornly try and fit the world into a century-old ideology, and they are a laughing stock for many on the left as well.

But I just can't put them in the same bucket as the QAnon supporters.

The SWP party may be on the fringes of the political spectrum, but they haven't used social media to spread conspiracy theories and disinformation with the goal of subverting the institutions, nor to organize an armed attack against Westminster.

Had they done anything similar, I wouldn't think twice before supporting the ban. But if they haven't, we can't ban them just for being anachronistic dinosaurs.

There must be a clear line between banning radicalized groups that pose a threat to society and political parties that, in spite of their outdated ideology, haven't posed any threats against society.

Unless Facebook wanted to give an example of how their policies stand above all parties and ban a left-wing page after banning a bunch of right-wing pages. But that's a quite weak argument.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#507

Post by gadders »

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

When I was at a left-wing university in the early 90's, it was mostly full of posh kids trying to upset their parents.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#508

Post by simonh »

monopoledance wrote: post #489
senorjazz wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're sort of our equivalent of Antifa in that they are a significant organising presence in lefty street protests Are you trying to give a wrong opinion of SWP. No "ultra violent, red army faction types" are joining the SWP. Also your use of "ultra violent" / "red army" surely is used to incorrectly ascertain that there are parts of the left that are much more violent than they actually are.

I think the "red army" is referring to RAF ( Red Army Faction , "Baader-Meinhof complex" in Germany), Red Brigades (Italy) and so on, in 70s, 80s European history. Actual leftist terrorist organisations , unlike the "antifa" (lol, America...). Edit: I think OP meant, it's not unlikely, if there was a real left terrorist organization, they would align with SWP, but the SWP is not the terrorist organisation . Same as w…

Yep, that's exactly what I meant.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#509

Post by simonh »

overscore wrote: post #438
stiray wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher' Just to inform you. Reagan and Thatcher have literally f* up the world by allowing banks to devaluate currency and forming a situation where my bank will charge me for having money deposited with them (instead of paying interests) while giving credits with m…

More directly, Thatcher was also responsible for a litany of crimes, including murder and torture, and human rights abuses against her own citizens in Northern Ireland. Although Thatcher is hated by swaths of UK society (which turns out to exist after all), there is in Great Britain in general an ignorance or blindness to crimes committed by the State against their own citizenry.

I think the UK population, as in most countries and maybe all of them, have a higher tolerance for such things when their own fellow citizens are being murdered and blown up.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#510

Post by wutbrodo »

quickthrowman wrote: post #504
pjc50 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CPGB-ML who are full on tankies It remains astonishing that a number of these people did a full 180 turn to right-libertarians and from there to Brexiteers, eventually leading to Claire Fox, apologist for the bombing of Manchester, becoming a member of the House of Lords. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Fox

Not really, ideology doesn’t matter to (some) extremists, they’ll follow whoever uses the tools of fear and hate most effectively. See the “Bernie Bros” who flipped into full Trumpists a few short months later in 2016. I’m sure if you look back at the Spanish Civil War and other divisive historical time periods you’ll find plenty of turncoats that flip from one extreme to another.

> See the “Bernie Bros” who flipped into full Trumpists a few short months later in 2016. I’m sure if you look back at the Spanish Civil War and other divisive historical time periods you’ll find plenty of turncoats that flip from one extreme to another.

This seems like a bit of a myopic, low-dimensional view of the political landscape. Bernie and trump (esp candidate trump) weren't "opposite extremes" when it came to plenty of issues: anti-free trade, anti-corporatist, promises to protect entitlements, complaining about the corruption of the existing political order, even just the populist vs technocrat aesthetic.

For people who prioritize this issue, the notion that Bernie and Trump are "opposite extremes" in every way relative to Hillary is laughable.

(President trump obviously reneged on much of his promises as a candidate and went with many mainstream gop policies, but that's neither here not there when discussing support during the election)

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