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Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

swp.org.uk

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Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#181

Post by stretchcat »

throwawaygh wrote: post #158
stretchcat wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Held accountable how? 2. Toward what end? In the case of the Nazis, the answers are 1. Executed. 2. Justice. For Facebook, I think executions should be off the table, but the second answer is the same. Facebook's engineers aren't gods, I get that. Knowing their engineers aren't gods, Facebook proceeded to use them to create imperfect but profitable systems anyway. Systems they knew or should have known would har…

Again, I view this as a passive voice excusing of responsibility for direct political action in exactly the same way that some people view "the algorithm" as a passive voice excusing of responsibility. The president pro tempore of the US senate was a Segrationist in 2001. Literally, segregationists of the US Senate outlived pets.com If any component of your blame or solution to the state of western politics includes…

> Again, I view this as a passive voice excusing of responsibility for direct political action

You are mistaken. Neither intentionalists nor functionalists excuse the responsibility of anybody, least of all the organization's leadership. To both, the organization and its leaders are to be held responsible for the actions of the organization. The functionalist model does not absolve anybody of guilt.

If you want to see the hazard of demanding proof of intention, look no further than the travesty of justice that occurred in the wake of Enron. Every last Enron executive should have been jailed, but prosecutors had a hell of a time getting any of them convicted of anything because of this misguided obsession with proving intent. And nobody from Arthur Anderson went to prison, for the same reason.

Obsession with intent allows the guilty to trot out the "we didn't mean for this to happen, we're all just idiots." excuse. Without a smoking gun email, that excuse is hard to conclusively disprove. The antidote to that is strict liability; saying that their intentions are irrelevant and punishing them anyway.

Reminder, this is my point: "When software goes wrong, the company that decided to create and operate that software for profit is responsible for whatever negative impact that software might have, regardless of whether these problems were foreseen."

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#182

Post by crocodiletears »

threeseed wrote: post #11

There was also a historical re-enactment page removed in December because they had militia in their title [1] Looks to just be an over-eager moderation engine. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-55215949

Facebook purged a lot of libertarian and militia pages throughout November and December as a part of a concentrated 'anti extremism' campaign. They're overeager, but they also deliberately target groups in waves.

Leftist pages with any tact have been somewhat insulated from the purges, but the liberals no longer need them, and the conservatives never liked them. They're getting the same treatment as the right now.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#183

Post by philjohn »

IndySun wrote: post #70

This shut down story is another tale in the impending international regulation, and maybe breaking up, of what is comically called 'big tech' ('big' does not begin to describe the sizes involved, the naivety is staggering). As newspaper barons before them, the internet has not policed itself adequately enough, according to the governments of the world, and now they will act in unity to take back some control. And the…

I mean, newspapers have escaped regulation for a hell of a long time - in the UK Leveson was defanged and the "part 2" that would have enacted real change was quietly dropped.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#184

Post by intricatedetail »

Funes- wrote: post #169
IndySun wrote: post #70

This shut down story is another tale in the impending international regulation, and maybe breaking up, of what is comically called 'big tech' ('big' does not begin to describe the sizes involved, the naivety is staggering). As newspaper barons before them, the internet has not policed itself adequately enough, according to the governments of the world, and now they will act in unity to take back some control. And the…

>Decentralized systems, and The Dark Web, will grow. >Citizens will require a personal licence to access the internet, and anonymous use will be illegal. Garlic routing provides plausible deniability. ISPs can't know for sure that you are using I2P, for instance, or what you are using it for. Sure, they could force every ISP to ban all encrypted P2P connections. And we could start setting up mesh networks that would…

People tolerate abuse from the "war on drugs", they will tolerate end of privacy. Just a matter of time and correct propaganda.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#185

Post by choward »

Tokkemon wrote: post #111
IndySun wrote: post #70

This shut down story is another tale in the impending international regulation, and maybe breaking up, of what is comically called 'big tech' ('big' does not begin to describe the sizes involved, the naivety is staggering). As newspaper barons before them, the internet has not policed itself adequately enough, according to the governments of the world, and now they will act in unity to take back some control. And the…

I think you need to lay off the apocalyptic movies for a bit.

Way to be dismissive. I bet you would have said the same thing to people a decade ago who thought the government was using the Internet to spy on them.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#186

Post by throwaways885 »

mrec wrote: post #72
BoorishBears wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this actually affect the correctness of their point? Acting like a reaction to a politically charged breach of the capitol building is equivalent to a page sharing views about COVID and workers rights getting removed? It actually feels absurd to type that sentence out...

I was correcting what looked like a significant misapprehension about the subject of the thread, not arguing for a comparison. Although I can't see anything in throwaways885's comment to suggest that they were talking about the post-Capitol-breach purges. If anything, "for a while" suggests the opposite.

Yes I'm referring to the deplatforming that's been going on for several years now. Things really ramped up in 2018 or so.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#187

Post by fredophile »

clusterfish wrote: post #106
konjin wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Citizens will require a personal licence to access the internet, and anonymous use will be illegal. I mean you already do. What do you call a signing up to an ISP?

You're just paying for a service that needs to know your address in order to function. Nobody will even check your id. Alternatively, you can use free wifi or a burner SIM with data. That possibility is not the case in every country, nor will it necessarily remain open in the future.

> You're just paying for a service that needs to know your address in order to function. Nobody will even check your id.

I don't remember for my current place but I know that when I first moved to the US I needed a credit check to get internet access in my home.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#188

Post by bonestamp2 »

intricatedetail wrote: post #184
Funes- wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Decentralized systems, and The Dark Web, will grow. >Citizens will require a personal licence to access the internet, and anonymous use will be illegal. Garlic routing provides plausible deniability. ISPs can't know for sure that you are using I2P, for instance, or what you are using it for. Sure, they could force every ISP to ban all encrypted P2P connections. And we could start setting up mesh networks that would…

People tolerate abuse from the "war on drugs", they will tolerate end of privacy. Just a matter of time and correct propaganda.

I think we can expect legislation to be drawn up soon. They try it every couple of years anyway, now they'll use the lawmaker's fear of another Capital Insurrection attempt to finally get it passed... the same way they used 911 to punch other holes in the 4th Amendment.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#189

Post by maedla »

IndySun wrote: post #70

This shut down story is another tale in the impending international regulation, and maybe breaking up, of what is comically called 'big tech' ('big' does not begin to describe the sizes involved, the naivety is staggering). As newspaper barons before them, the internet has not policed itself adequately enough, according to the governments of the world, and now they will act in unity to take back some control. And the…

I don't think that is the case!

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#190

Post by throwaway894345 »

aaomidi wrote: post #90
throwaway894345 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by “marginalized” we mean “radicals”, then yes. If we mean “minorities”, then you’re probably just propagating the myths that minorities hold far-left-wing views. On the contrary, while minority views skew left-wing, only a minority of minorities hold far-left beliefs and there’s a lot more political diversity among minorities than there is between minority and majority groups. For example, “defund the police” is…

"radicals" that brought us the 40 hour work week. That brought us birth control. That brought us voting rights for all. All of these were "radical" at their time. The only reason they're not anymore is because they have become mainstream. Maybe you should check your assumptions about how life is and read some history of how we got here. "defund the police" is something that has been vocalized for decades, if not cent…

Nevertheless those opinions are not widespread among minority groups, which was the original point.
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