Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#471

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:21 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #390

kypro wrote: post #287

How is this not foreign political interference? The UK media has been preaching to us about dangers of Russian election interference for years at this point, but simultaneously they seem completely unconcerned that a handful of wealthy Americans how the power to censor popular media outlets, entire political movements and political activists at a whim. The SWP is massive. I don't know for sure, but I suspect they had…

Ha ha. Time to regurgitate all the “private suppression of information isn’t censorship”, “facebook is a private company free of kicking anyone out of their platform”, “facebook shouldn’t be compelled to carry speech it dislikes”, etc.

I mean... yes? I can't speak for others but my opinion on the matter remains unchanged despite who the target is. I may disagree that it was a good move, but it is, in my opinion, Facebook's right to ban anyone it wants.

It'd be like if dang decided he'd had enough of me bitching about package management, bad UIs, and software bloat and banned me. I wouldn't like it, but I also don't believe I am entitled to force HN to host my rants.

I believe the right way to handle this, if you are upset about how Facebook does things, is to stop using Facebook and tell other people why you don't use Facebook.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#472

Post by senorjazz » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #400

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

Antifa shows up to other groups' protests to start fights and engage in political violence, sometimes with deadly consequences. Is that what SWP does too?

No. OP made a bad analogy. Antifa will meet violence with violence and don't mind a bit of direct action. SWP are a legitimate socialist party

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#473

Post by DonaldFisk » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

_Understated_ wrote: post #463

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

If I had to guess, they were banned because of this: "The SWP Facebook page regularly posts in support of Palestine, Black Lives Matter and against Boris Johnson’s Covid policies" In particular, the COVID part is where I'd put my money.

The're in favour of a tighter lockdown to save more lives: https://socialistworker.co.uk/art/51093/Action+needed+now+to...

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#474

Post by senorjazz » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

> They're sort of our equivalent of Antifa in that they are a significant organising presence in lefty street protests

I can see the point you are trying to make being familiar with both, but for those who are not, this analogy is just wrong and confusing to those who do not know SWP and will think you are saying SWP have no qualms about using violence. That is wrong

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#475

Post by senorjazz » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

> They're sort of our equivalent of Antifa in that they are a significant organising presence in lefty street protests

Are you trying to give a wrong opinion of SWP. No "ultra violent, red army faction types" are joining the SWP.

Also your use of "ultra violent" / "red army" surely is used to incorrectly ascertain that there are parts of the left that are much more violent than they actually are.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#476

Post by dpwm » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:28 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #465

antihero wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're pretty much loathed in the left. They're more like PETA than antifa, they cover up internal sexual assaults, have a bunch of cranks, and other groups have to put up with and try to prevent their continuous entryism, hijacking protests and other actions to self-promote. Lots of cranks (though probably less so than CPGB-ML who are full on tankies), and a giant pain in the backside. Nevertheless, whilst I chuckl…

> CPGB-ML who are full on tankies It remains astonishing that a number of these people did a full 180 turn to right-libertarians and from there to Brexiteers, eventually leading to Claire Fox, apologist for the bombing of Manchester, becoming a member of the House of Lords. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Fox

> > CPGB-ML who are full on tankies

> It remains astonishing that a number of these people did a full 180 turn to right-libertarians and from there to Brexiteers, eventually leading to Claire Fox, apologist for the bombing of Manchester, becoming a member of the House of Lords.

Claire fox was never CPGB-ML, but the “Revolutionary Communist Party.” From what I can understand, the RCP was always a primarily contrarian entity and always more libertarian than Marxist. To quote their journal, Living Marxism:

> We live in an age of caution and conformism, when critical opinions can be outlawed as 'extremism' and anything new can be rubbished as 'too risky'. Ours is an age of low expectations, when we are always being told what is bad for us, and life seems limited on all sides by restrictions, guidelines and regulations. The spirit of LM is to go against the grain: to oppose all censorship, bans and codes of conduct; to stand up for social and scientific experimentation; to insist that we have the right to live as autonomous adults who take responsibility for our own affairs. These are basic human values that cannot be compromised if we are ever going to create a world fit for people. [0]

This seems to have more in common with the libertarian right than Marxist, particularly “to insist that we have the right to live as autonomous adults who take responsibility for our own affairs,” which is almost the antithesis of Marxism.

> Fox stayed with her ex-RCP members when the group transformed itself in the early 2000s into a network around the web magazine Spiked Online and the Institute of Ideas, both based in the former RCP offices and promoting libertarianism. [1]

Given their apparent funding, contrarian headline-generating antics and subsequent banding together, some may question whether they were a model for what would come later: an opaquely funded right-libertarian outlet.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_Marxism

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Fox

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#477

Post by frabbit » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:29 PM UTC

stjohnswarts wrote: post #276

mancerayder wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it makes the demand for distributed moderation come from across the political spectrum. It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it de-politicizes censorship, and folks on one side of the spectrum cheering for the other side begin to realize that censorship is always a scope creep iss…

I'm a little worried in a few years it will only be safe to put up recipes and tell people happy birthday on social media, everything else will be too controversial

Recipes are an infringement of intellectual property. In order to protect recipe creators we need to make sure that the streaming-recipe platforms are regulated.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#478

Post by TheRealDunkirk » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:34 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #80

It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it makes the demand for distributed moderation come from across the political spectrum. I hope that demand congeals on support for an open blogging protocol, such that people can very easily post once and direct it to multiple platforms or any listener. If this becomes popular enough, and posts aren't owned by a particular platform…

> I hope that demand congeals on support for an open blogging protocol

One of the biggest takeaways from the past 25 years of "the internet" is that critical-mass-achieving walled gardens are the ticket to unicorndom, and that's the only kind of solution that VC dollars are chasing. I don't think there's a way for someone to make a self-sustaining alternative open platform in this "market."

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#479

Post by frabbit » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:36 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #465

antihero wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're pretty much loathed in the left. They're more like PETA than antifa, they cover up internal sexual assaults, have a bunch of cranks, and other groups have to put up with and try to prevent their continuous entryism, hijacking protests and other actions to self-promote. Lots of cranks (though probably less so than CPGB-ML who are full on tankies), and a giant pain in the backside. Nevertheless, whilst I chuckl…

> CPGB-ML who are full on tankies It remains astonishing that a number of these people did a full 180 turn to right-libertarians and from there to Brexiteers, eventually leading to Claire Fox, apologist for the bombing of Manchester, becoming a member of the House of Lords. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claire_Fox

Why is it surprising? A lot of Marxist functional description of the capitalist economy is coherent with events if you squint hard enough. If that is accepted then moral choices and personal preferences overlaid ontop lead to several different paths. Accelerationism is one.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#480

Post by frabbit » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #398

simonh wrote: post #368

For any non-Brits, the SWP is the main left of Labour party in Britain. As a student in the 80s I remember them as an earnest, way too serious bunch of ideological zombies ranting into microphones at the Student's Union about the latest crimes against humanity perpetrated by 'Thatcher'. They're the kind of people that come up to you in the street with leaflets about some atrocity in Africa and shout "Would you murder…

"Antifa" is more of a self applied label; you can certainly see antifa logos at demos. The SWP are Trotskyist, in the sense of "March through the institutions". If you're doing anything left wing they will turn up and try to make it about them, take over organization positions, etc. The SWP are mostly your boring old lefty uncle, with a side of institutional rape apologia: https://www.gender-agenda.org.uk/not-my-comr…

Ironically SF were banned from the media in Ireland, but not in the UK. There was a ban that involved a specific wording that was construed to mean that recordings of their voices could not be played. So, IIRC video was played of their spokespeople with actors dubbing over their voices. EDIT: I see angry_octet supplied the same information below.