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Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

swp.org.uk

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Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#271

Post by colordrops »

root_axis wrote: post #244
colordrops wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's like claiming that digital money can't be fully decentralized. And it indeed wasn't possible until Satoshi figured it out. There's no obvious reason to believe that a fully distributed social network isn't also possible. A requirement would be that any individual would have full agency for all operations on the network. Once you've got one agent that has special power over another agent, it's lost.

I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it doesn't change anything with respect to operators removing content. A "website" is just what we call a node accessible via the http protocol.

A new protocol could conceivably prevent anyone from removing content without your consent, that's my point.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#272

Post by Guthur »

hirundo wrote: post #80

It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it makes the demand for distributed moderation come from across the political spectrum. I hope that demand congeals on support for an open blogging protocol, such that people can very easily post once and direct it to multiple platforms or any listener. If this becomes popular enough, and posts aren't owned by a particular platform…

It possible that the only sensible option is to ban all political groups from these platforms.

The reason is that ultimately no one what's to have extreme polar opinions on these sites, but it's going to be very difficult to determine that in a non partisan manner.

Though also to be fair it might be difficult to truely flag all political groups.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#273

Post by threatofrain »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #235

> ... have been removed from Facebook with no explanation given At the very least, this should be unacceptable. You shouldn't get banned for something if you aren't told what you did. If it was for use of the word revolutionary, it should say so. Or if they called for some leader's heads, it should say so. Then they could avoid doing the same in the future and we could all agree with or criticize the rationale. As it…

We should create a brightline, even if approximate and requiring later adjustment, to determine which companies are too big and must be governed by a different set of rules. Normally we would consider it unremarkable if a restaurant quits a customer, or if a law firm refused a client altogether.

On the other hand we consider it disaster if Amazon quits you as a vendor, or if your only local hospital refuses you. Perhaps any firm handling more than $1M yearly revenue shouldn’t be able to randomly quit customers.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#274

Post by d3nj4l »

convery wrote: post #129
mrec wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally agreed, although I think that only really applies to control at the social-network level, not to control exerted via e.g. Chrome or DNS or your ISP. This feels like the start of a very long road.

Didn't Mozilla recently-ish put out a statement about possibly having a black-list of sorts to remove bad sites / "think of the children"? On mobile so can't search for it but surely someone here remembers the link.

Don’t spread FUD. The statement you’re referring to had nothing to do with blacklisting sites.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#275

Post by frabbit »

hirundo wrote: post #80

It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it makes the demand for distributed moderation come from across the political spectrum. I hope that demand congeals on support for an open blogging protocol, such that people can very easily post once and direct it to multiple platforms or any listener. If this becomes popular enough, and posts aren't owned by a particular platform…

This assumes that there is a political spectrum and that all parts of it have equal power. The SWP have miniscule political clout. In general the left (not the liberal center often mislabeled as "left" in the USA) has few institutions and less power. The most likely outcome is the consolidation of censorship in the hands of Republican/Democratic censors. Left-wingers will be welcome to post to ten followers at a time on Mastodon.

There really is only one obvious response to this: Facebook, Google etc are common carriers, not allowed to censor. They should also be broken up given their massive size which enables them to drive policy which affects them.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#276

Post by stjohnswarts »

mancerayder wrote: post #215
hirundo wrote: post #80

It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it makes the demand for distributed moderation come from across the political spectrum. I hope that demand congeals on support for an open blogging protocol, such that people can very easily post once and direct it to multiple platforms or any listener. If this becomes popular enough, and posts aren't owned by a particular platform…

> It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it makes the demand for distributed moderation come from across the political spectrum. It's a positive thing for these ejections to be across the political spectrum, because it de-politicizes censorship, and folks on one side of the spectrum cheering for the other side begin to realize that censorship is always a scope creep iss…

I'm a little worried in a few years it will only be safe to put up recipes and tell people happy birthday on social media, everything else will be too controversial

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#277

Post by quantumwannabe »

oarabbus_ wrote: post #220
tehjoker wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet, but FB's incentive structure is anti-left (they're a corporation natch) and their head of public policy is a hardcore Republican that worked for the GWB administration and energy companies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Kaplan

How is the incentive structure anti-left? I suppose suspending Trump's account qualifies as "anti-left" these days. Zuckerberg openly stating he supported Black Lives Matter? Anti-left. Facebook deleting PragerU content for "hate speech" before getting reprimaneded? Anti-left. Zuckerberg personally assisting Pete Buttigieg around primary season? ANTI LEFT, I SAY! DIDN'T YOU HEAR HE SAT AT A DINNER TABLE WITH CONSERVA…

The grandparent's example is a poor indicator of the political leaning of Facebook's executive team. VP of U.S. Public Policy is a euphemism for Head Lobbyist and now that the Democrats control both the Presidency and Congress, I would not be surprised if the current guy is fired and replaced with someone with deep ties to the Democrat party.

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#278

Post by stjohnswarts »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #235

> ... have been removed from Facebook with no explanation given At the very least, this should be unacceptable. You shouldn't get banned for something if you aren't told what you did. If it was for use of the word revolutionary, it should say so. Or if they called for some leader's heads, it should say so. Then they could avoid doing the same in the future and we could all agree with or criticize the rationale. As it…

Exactly, I'm pretty curious what they said? Were they being dishonest? Hate speech? threatening violence?

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#279

Post by Proven »

benjamoon wrote: post #210

Tim Berner’s Lee and the Solid project have a good answer to these issues I think. Everyone owns their posts and likes and comments and friends etc. Any new platform can spin up and instantly compete because they just have to make your data more useful to you. It’d be like you owning all your music online and Spotify is just an interface, if you don’t like it you can jump to Apple Music. Or make your own or download…

[dead]

Re: Facebook shuts down the Socialist Workers Party in Britain

#280

Post by selimthegrim »

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #221
jjcon wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude... if you just kept reading it’s clear they aren’t claiming they were the only ones, but Jews by far were the primary targets. Nobody is denying other shit happened though.

To be fair, the article does make a distinction, saying the other parts weren't part of the holocaust, necessitating a different name for everything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#Definition It doesn't deny that other stuff happens, it just defines the holocaust as not including them. Personally, I never knew the scale of the non-holocaust parts of the holocaust era until reading this today, and I…

Roma have their own term for it IIRC
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