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Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

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Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#631

Post by bsanr2 »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #368
whoknew1122 wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize for being imprecise. Far-right terrorism hasn't been taken seriously until a far-right terrorist actually commits violence. Then government is vigilant for a couple of years and goes back to ignoring them. Far-right terror was taken seriously after the OKC bombing. But the far-right terrorist threat had been steadily increasing for three years at that point. Ruby Ridge and the Waco Siege contributed to a…

They took far right terrorism seriously in the 1870s. They more or less stamped out the (original) KKK while simultaneously giving the south the requisite autonomy to enact Jim Crow. Obviously Jim Crow doesn't square with our modern view but at the time the lack of some systemic way to keep the black people down was a serious grievance that a lot of people had. The government cracked down on the extremists who were s…

Part of the problem is that institutions are always highly resistant to the notion of right-wing, white violence being a serious threat, rooted specifically in its right-wing whiteness. See the Columbine shootings and the frantic finger pointing at video games, Satanism, and bullying, all to avoid facing the fact that what happened could be most easily slotted into the legacy of white dude rage in America. The dynamic both aggravates the people involved, who correctly hold that their true ideologies and aims are being obfuscated, and provides them cover.

It keeps happening because these institutions, often headed by white men themselves, are terrified of confronting their family, neighbors, or even their own feelings in a meaningful way. Anything that happens must be done quietly and carefully enough not to indict their personal identity.

https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/turning-20/columbine-mass...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#632

Post by notacoward »

californical wrote: post #28
seattle_spring wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really doesn't, but ok. Facebook has a huge moderation team. Just because some things get through that cause damage doesn't put it in the same category as a platform specifically built to enable terrorism.

I’m sorry but this isn’t Reddit, you can’t just claim a platform was specifically built for terrorism because you’re upset. It has definitely attracted an alt-right crowd, but “specifically built to enable terrorism” is some ridiculous cable-news-level propaganda. I’d much rather this conversation be about free speech and where lines can be drawn — and it bothers me that platforms can be taken down everywhere because…

> this isn’t Reddit ... because you’re upset.

You're right, it's not Reddit, and "because you're upset" would take it in that direction. Let's not.

> it bothers me that platforms can be taken down everywhere because of an unrelated group that happened to use them for something horrible

Does it bother you that many people are calling for exactly that wrt Facebook right now? I just checked comment history and saw no evidence of that, but I figured I'd ask instead of pretending to be psychic.

> Will Signal be taken down for refusing to add a backdoor?

I don't think anyone, including Apple or Google, considers Signal to be in the same category that requires moderation. Why not? Because there's this commonly applied but never defined distinction between public and private communication. Facebook is considered public, even though some communications there can be private. Signal is considered private, even though you can form pretty large groups of people who are nearly (but not completely) strangers. I wish someone would codify the difference, and its implications wrt moderation/takedown requirements. The lack of clarity around such issues is why both posters and platforms can claim immunity while toxic content spreads.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#633

Post by ttt0 »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #266
alwaysdoit wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's weird that the discussion has centered around censorship, rather than like... why didn't law enforcement shut this down sooner? Or at least properly prepare for it?

Far-right terrorism in the US has never really been taken seriously. No one took them seriously. Until the Capitol was attacked. The Feds are starting to roll up high ranking militia members, so hopefully they learned their lesson this time.

Did you ever read any actual FBI documents regarding extremism? Clearly not, I guess.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#634

Post by koolba »

jacquesm wrote: post #511
nostromo wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What they can't survive is... And yet, here we are, democracy intact.

There was an excellent article by someone from a place where a failed coup led to a real one a couple of years hence. Democracy is not 'intact', it is now damaged, and whether or not manage to repair it remains to be seen. The most dangerous thing you can do now is to think this is behind you and from here on in everything is normal. It isn't and it probably won't be for some time. If you manage the next two transfer…

The only worse than the the content of that link was the writing style.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#635

Post by jackson1442 »

Spivak wrote: post #622
jackson1442 wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prison is meant to punish not reform? slightly off-topic but I don't think a 58-year sentence will reform anyone more than a 10-year sentence would. The entire American prison system is built around punishing our prisoners.

I think you hit diminishing returns even before 10 years. Unless you have a reason to believe that if let out they would immediately do harm I would cap it at 5 for the very worst offenders.

Absolutely, I figured the argument would stand stronger with 10 years as, even if you're of the mindset that prison works, 10 years is obviously more than enough for the "rehabilitation." If anything, prison seems to breed more resentment for the system that put them there in the first place.

I really think the entire prison system needs to be rethought from the ground up though. It doesn't make sense that excons carry this weight with them throughout their life, failing background checks. If someone's been released from prison, they should be done with their punishment. Period.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#636

Post by hurt_and_afraid »

vinay_ys wrote: post #576
EhhhhSql wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth noting that quite a few politicians hold facebook stock, most notably Nancy Pelosi. I believe most of her current personal wealth is from facebook stock. My point is not to be skeptical of Pelosi from some partisan perspective; I have never voted Republican. I merely aim to cast doubt on whether anything will fundamentally change.

This should be a pretty easy to verify claim. Do you have any source for this?

It's not quite "most of her current personal wealth". Here is a source:

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/nancy-pelosi...

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#637

Post by jonnyone »

jiofih wrote: post #630
jonnyone wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people here are unable to distance themselves from their ideological contempt for Trump to be able analyze this with a clear mind. There is not much of a case that Trump "incited" a riot. The fact that this was planned for months only further cements that.

Check your own biases. He was telling a huge crowd that the election was stolen, he would show proof the same day (we are still waiting), and they “will not stand down”. What else is needed to make that case? (non-US person here)

Like it or not, Trump is allowed to dispute the results of the election. He's also allowed to do so openly and to a crowd. Language like "will not stand down" is obviously in reference to the "fight" for his "case" and falls in line exactly with the language he had been using at previous rallies and on Twitter. Was he "inciting" a riot then?

I hate that I even have to say this, because it seems childishly unnecessary, but I am not a fan of Trump. But I feel there is enough to condemn him for without grasping for straws.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#638

Post by approxim8ion »

core-questions wrote: post #527
tomcam wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it that this fictitious bogeyman group has managed to take over portions of Seattle, get two people killed in Seattle, and spend months burning down neighborhoods in Seattle and Portland?

Easy, my friend. All it has to do is deny its existence, and ensure that this denial is reflected up and down the stack. Under such cover, it can do anything, and blame anything that goes wrong on its opponents.

Please cry more.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#639

Post by bsanr2 »

aerosmile wrote: post #431
Barrin92 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

another thing that immediately came to mind after the capitol rioting was the standoff with Cliven Bundy and an article I saw a few years ago[1]. I even remembered that at the time there were people on Fox who were downplaying this as some sort of patriotic resistance against the government. Imagine if someone started a caliphate on US territory, I'm sure we'd be hearing the same kind of arguments /s "Cliven Bundy an…

You forgot to mention why the charges were dropped: > The judge declared a mistrial in December and ruled on Monday that prosecutors could not retry the case, arguing that the US attorney’s office had willfully withheld evidence and engaged in misconduct.

Somehow I don't think such consideration would have been extended to the Boston bombers, even with LE overreach on display for the whole country to see re: the search and entry tactics in Watertown et al.

Re: Capitol Attack Was Months in the Making on Facebook

#640

Post by mrburkins »

vimy wrote: post #522
dylan-m wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should add a caveat around "the BLM movement is about." One of its problems (like many progressive movements) is everyone has a different idea what it is about, and the mainstream media does not help with that in the slightest. So, the original idea there is police in the United States are killing black people for stupid reasons, which is true . There are no statistics to worry about for that one and there don't ne…

>So, the original idea there is police in the United States are killing black people for stupid reasons, which is true. Is it though? Seems to me you're advocating feelings matter more than facts. I believe it would be more accurate to say "police in the United States are killing people for stupid reasons, which is true." while keeping in mind that those incidents are the exception, not the norm. The police shot 28 u…

I think the issue isn’t just police killing unarmed black people but also an incredibly large disparity in use of all physical force which your stats allude to:

>This paper explores racial differences in police use of force. On non-lethal uses of force, blacks and Hispanics are more than fifty percent more likely to experience some form of force in interactions with police. Adding controls that account for important context and civilian behavior reduces, but cannot fully explain, these disparities.

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