Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#941

Post by sn_master » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:40 AM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #397

Closi wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a specious argument on its face. The First Amendment does not say that private companies are obligated to spend money broadcasting someone else's speech. Hosting and serving isn't free and any private company has the freedom to decide what not to host. I'm in the UK, but the difference is that right now, these private companies control communication. I'm not allowed outside my house and I live alone. I'm no…

If these companies are "shutting you down" for your speech, it's the same sort of speech that would have gotten you shut down in the public square. Have they shut down text messaging, phone calls, group messaging, all the encrypted messaging apps? Do the tech companies control postal mail, letters to the editor, and printing presses? Of course not. You are looking for others to give you a platform to reach a wide aud…

If you're so tired by the incitement of violence, what do you think about what BLM did last year?

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#942

Post by hinkley » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:44 AM UTC

riversflow wrote: post #688

hinkley wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result of doing nothing is that in 15 years, the US becomes Germany, pre-WW2. You can think of it as vendors getting 'canceled' for progressively less severe offenses. Or. You can think of it as people waking up to offenses that have been allowed to go unchallenged for way too fucking long. People 'waking up' or no longer keeping their heads down being the result of the current administration transitioning to a L…

>in 15 years, the U.S. becomes Germany, pre-WW2 >the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. The irony of censoring people being, “the price of freedom”. Serious question, why do you think that disenfranchising groups of their ability to communicate online is going to prevent social strife and violence instead of intensifying it? Banning theDonald didn’t help, the Daily Stormer being banished from the web didn’t chang…

Here's the thing. If you've paid attention for more than fifteen minutes to feminists complaining about mistreatment, you'd know that one of the oldest tricks in the deflection playbook is to play the "agreeableness" card, asking people to calm down and be reasonable. At its best, it's a delaying tactic, playing for time while you continue to enjoy the fruits of inequality. I don't like it when it happens to women. I'm sure as hell not going to tolerate it being turned toward me.

When they say "literal nazis", they mean literal nazis, not figurative nazis.

I don't think the entire GOP it turning into Nazis. I can't recall the last time I heard someone say they believed it. However, I don't think every German, or even most Germans, in WWII were Nazis either. That didn't stop the Nazis from being in charge. It barely slowed them down.

In order to get his 49% of the votes, #45 had to scrape the bottom of the barrel, courting every non-liberal element of society. The GOP leadership has publicly recognized these groups and groups like them as members of Team GOP. They seated them at a table as if they deserve to be peers with the folks you claim to represent.

Let me ask you a serious question. Was it worth it to win that way? Really? What entitles anyone who says 'yes' or 'maybe' to be painted with a separate brush from the people who delivered the victory at "any cost"?

If getting you, or all of us really, looking in the mirror is going to be predicated on treating you with the respect you plan to earn once they've treated you as if you've earned it, then buddy, you're going to be disrespected for an awful long time. Read the warnings, take some umbrage. I certainly am.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#943

Post by lindenksv85 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:46 AM UTC

h3cate wrote: post #907

vegannet wrote: post #891

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They literally erected gallows on the grounds of the capitol, they literally marched through the building chanting "hang Mike Pence". The entire basis of the Q Anon conspiracy is that Donald Trump is preparing to destroy the deep state and retain power. Spend more than a few minutes browsing around Gab (you can just look at the top posts) and you'll see explicit references to overthrowing the government. You can abso…

Didn't BLM install gallows outside Jeff bezos house or something like that? Were they trying to overthrow Amazon?

If so, that would be a crime and those people should have been arrested. So what? I love the conservative view that if any liberal anywhere did anything bad, then it’s a get out of jail card for them to also do that bad thing. No dude. A crime is a crime.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#944

Post by lindenksv85 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:48 AM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #897

cactus2093 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the best mitigations here, both technical and social? Vocally side with the popular issues, or try to stay completely out of them, to try to avoid becoming a target (e.g., social media presence)? For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. Seems like a pretty easy thing to stay clear of. I get the concern you're expressing, but not everything is a s…

>For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. Seems like a pretty easy thing to stay clear of. There's a bakery somewhere that wasn't controversial until they were. In this day and age you can become the subject of a national controversy overnight.

There is a big difference between “controversial” and a place where people are actively planning criminal activity. It’s not close. No bank, for example, could continue serving a known crime org. They themselves would be charged if they did that.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#945

Post by lightgreen » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:52 AM UTC

redleader55 wrote: post #868

lightgreen wrote: post #851

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parler was not "designed to host right wing extremists", same way 1st amendment was not designed to provide free speech to "right wing extremists". It was designed to provide free speech to everyone. And hypothetical right wing extremists occasionally use it same way they use telephones and supermarkets.

This looks a lot like the gun discussion. Some people believe X is just a tool, other people say because X is used for doing bad things, it should be banned. Technically this is exactly the line separating left from right, I don't think there will be a conclusion or agreement on this.

> conclusion or agreement on this

Agreement may be in discussing hard facts and not assigning emotional labels.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#946

Post by lindenksv85 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:53 AM UTC

mmmmmbop wrote: post #849

cactus2093 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the best mitigations here, both technical and social? Vocally side with the popular issues, or try to stay completely out of them, to try to avoid becoming a target (e.g., social media presence)? For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. Seems like a pretty easy thing to stay clear of. I get the concern you're expressing, but not everything is a s…

> For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. I honestly have no political axe to grind here, but I distinctly remember how 4 years ago it was a legitimate talking point on the losing side that 'faithless electors' (or 'Hamilton electors') should step up to deny Trump the presidency ([1], [2]). Michael Moore offered to pay the resulting fines for any Republica…

To be fair they wanted to do that because they saw Trump as a would-be dictator unwilling to leave power peacefully and deadest on using the government to punish his enemies and line his own pockets. They did THAT to avoid THIS. Being right about the reasons why you are doing things is actually important.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#947

Post by lindenksv85 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 12:57 AM UTC

obviouslynotme wrote: post #936

ctvo wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What unfortunate circumstances we find ourselves in when the cost of doing business with a company associated with white supremacists, insurrectionists, and murderers outweighs the benefits so much that other private businesses won't sell them things. Everyone is entitled to force themselves on Apple, Google, Amazon, Twilio, Stripe, et al., right? I find a depressing majority of the people screaming censorship at the…

If just Apple suspended them for a clearly identified infringement of codified policy and then gave them steps to correct it, I wouldn't care nearly as much as multiple sectors of industry banning one company within hours of each other. It's the coordination that is terrifying. When a group of powerful people says, "You have to let me do crazy thing , or the boogieman wins," you must forgive me for having doubts. I h…

It’s not coordination if multiple companies actually agree on reality. I would think it would be worse if some companies said this were fine and other didn’t - THAT would imply that someone was being treated unfairly maybe. This is just a unanimous jury, that’s all. I think it’s rather silly to say that if, for example, someone goes on tv and says they’re planning on building nuclear bombs in their closet, you believe Apple can’t suspend them until they say that exact same thing on their platform. If you are a violent threat in the real world, then you also are on all the platforms whether you reveal that there or not.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#948

Post by lindenksv85 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 1:02 AM UTC

Zelphyr wrote: post #867

zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

Not to put too fine a point on what you said but since lot of people here are saying, in essence, "Unless you do support storming the Capitol then you have nothing to worry about" I think it's worth highlighting with a concrete example that isn't outside the realm of possibility. Let's say you own a company with about 100 employees. You have never taken a political stand beyond voting. Now let's imagine that two of t…

Either the baker gets to decide whether to make a gay wedding cake or they don’t. Which one is it??

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#949

Post by lindenksv85 » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

frockington1 wrote: post #707

b0bb1z3r0 wrote: post #618

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is illegal to conspire to commit violence against the US

How is any social media platform up? I understand why Parler was taken down, but why is this not applied to every single website? I'm sure we can find a 'conspiracy to commit violence against the US' in this single article thread

Because there is a difference between 1% of your content being illegal and you actively working o it and like 50% of your content being illegal and you telling everyone profusely you refuse to moderate?

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#950

Post by obviouslynotme » Tue, Jan 12, 2021, 1:12 AM UTC

lindenksv85 wrote: post #947

obviouslynotme wrote: post #936

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If just Apple suspended them for a clearly identified infringement of codified policy and then gave them steps to correct it, I wouldn't care nearly as much as multiple sectors of industry banning one company within hours of each other. It's the coordination that is terrifying. When a group of powerful people says, "You have to let me do crazy thing , or the boogieman wins," you must forgive me for having doubts. I h…

It’s not coordination if multiple companies actually agree on reality. I would think it would be worse if some companies said this were fine and other didn’t - THAT would imply that someone was being treated unfairly maybe. This is just a unanimous jury, that’s all. I think it’s rather silly to say that if, for example, someone goes on tv and says they’re planning on building nuclear bombs in their closet, you believ…

The problem with your example is I don't turn off the bomb maker's electricity. I call the police. They take violent threats seriously. If you think someone is making a violent threat, that is what you do. They want to shut down non-violent speech. The police won't deal with that.

As for the collusion, I might believe you if this were the first time. After all, it was such an enormous, public incident. But it is not the first time and it will not be the last time either.