Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#841

Post by ctvo » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

obviouslynotme wrote: post #727

zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

If AWS is dropping you, then Facebook, Twitter, and Google probably already have. Stripe, Cloudflare, and Paypal are probably doing the same. If you try to continue, Visa, MasterCard, and your ISP will shut you down next. This is the world we live in now. You can be removed from commerce by a unanimous decision that you will be told never happened. I am just glad I can shut people down hard now when they say, "If you…

What unfortunate circumstances we find ourselves in when the cost of doing business with a company associated with white supremacists, insurrectionists, and murderers outweighs the benefits so much that other private businesses won't sell them things.

Everyone is entitled to force themselves on Apple, Google, Amazon, Twilio, Stripe, et al., right?

I find a depressing majority of the people screaming censorship at the top of their lungs believe people are not entitled to health care or free education in this country. That would be big government. People however are entitled to make you do business with them, even if it's financially damaging to you.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#842

Post by manfredo » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #435

mozillalives wrote: post #44

All I’m going to say is that I’m all for free speech and setting fair rules for everyone to play by (ie regulation), but looking at the examples provided in the buzzfeed articles this is beyond simple free speech. I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech but there are clear threats being made on the platform. If Parler doesn’t want to do any content regula…

> the left trying to shut down free speech People really have no idea what the "left" even is anymore do they? I was once down voted here for mentioning that the NYTimes is not an extreme left wing publication. The NYTimes is a centrist liberal publication that is widely reviled by anyone on the left. It's amazing to me that the media (not just Fox-news and co) has constructed this bizarre bogey-man of the left as so…

> The NYTimes is a centrist liberal publication that is widely reviled by anyone on the left.

This is a very different characterization than what most people would offer.

The New York Times is a staunchly left publication, and the past few years have seen the few centrist people at the company driven out (e.g. Bari Weiss). It is definitely not "reviled by anyone on the left", it's by far one of the most widely read publications among liberals.

I say this as a lifelong Democrat and liberal. This seems like one of those statements that only olds true when one draws the line between the left and right such that the overwhelming majority (easily >90%) are categorized on the right.

> People who two weeks ago would claim that companies should drive out employees who disagree with them, now wish these companies were subject to the will of the people.

Can you elaborate on what this is referring to? If you're talking about Coinbase, the company was asking employees to check their activism - of any political leaning - at the door. Not that people should be driven out. In fact, a big part of why this was well received is because often times activism in the company leads to employees trying to drive each other out.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#843

Post by henry_bone » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

riversflow wrote: post #688

hinkley wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result of doing nothing is that in 15 years, the US becomes Germany, pre-WW2. You can think of it as vendors getting 'canceled' for progressively less severe offenses. Or. You can think of it as people waking up to offenses that have been allowed to go unchallenged for way too fucking long. People 'waking up' or no longer keeping their heads down being the result of the current administration transitioning to a L…

>in 15 years, the U.S. becomes Germany, pre-WW2 >the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. The irony of censoring people being, “the price of freedom”. Serious question, why do you think that disenfranchising groups of their ability to communicate online is going to prevent social strife and violence instead of intensifying it? Banning theDonald didn’t help, the Daily Stormer being banished from the web didn’t chang…

Downvoted Really!? What the fuck for??

Parler's app was the number one download on the app store & play store after Trump was kicked off Twitter.

Then apple and google decided that Parler was not going to be a platform Trump could use, so they kicked the app off.

Then amazon decided that Parler had no place on their computing resources.

Those 2 tweets were interpreted as they were, to suit the political leanings of those tech companies and their political allies. And a legitimate competitor was destroyed into the bargain. This is not reasonable and it is antithetical to the freedoms on which your great nation was founded.

If you, dear HN reader, can't see the threat to your freedom in this then you are blind.

The US democracy may be under stress, so to speak, but it does seem to be working. The democrats will have their man in the white house. Trump will leave.

Oh, and to call that invasion of the capitol an attempted coup is a real stretch. What were they ever going to do other than get arrested??

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#844

Post by kingaillas » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:02 PM UTC

zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

>What are the best mitigations here, both technical and social?

Don't violate the terms of service of other businesses you depend on?

For all the hard-core libertarian/corporate/free market cheerleaders, isn't this the libertarian way to handle it? CorpA and CorpB have a service agreement/contract, CorpA feels like CorpB violated it, kicks them off, courts handle the aftermath?

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#845

Post by gairhgfqiu » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:03 PM UTC

mozillalives wrote: post #44

All I’m going to say is that I’m all for free speech and setting fair rules for everyone to play by (ie regulation), but looking at the examples provided in the buzzfeed articles this is beyond simple free speech. I hear a lot of people saying this is just another example of the left trying to shut down free speech but there are clear threats being made on the platform. If Parler doesn’t want to do any content regula…

Exactly, they can plan their attacks in a restaurant. But if restaurant owner knows that a group is planning an attack, then owner is held liable.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#846

Post by ketamine__ » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:04 PM UTC

paulnechifor wrote: post #825

ketamine__ wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently it depends on the country. Facebook deleted personal profiles of NSO group employees because they hacked WhatsApp but then an Israeli court ruled that was illegal. Sometimes Facebook does the right thing. I think Uber should refuse service to those added to the no fly list. Some of them aren't taking it so well: https://mobile.twitter.com/rayredacted/status/13483886011182...

All companies shutting them down without so much as a hearing in court will probably lead them to build parallel societies.

Imagine a world where you could sue a business because they don't want you as a customer. It sounds crazy.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#847

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:05 PM UTC

zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

[deleted]

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#848

Post by adamsea » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

jlkuester7 wrote: post #469

cactus2093 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the best mitigations here, both technical and social? Vocally side with the popular issues, or try to stay completely out of them, to try to avoid becoming a target (e.g., social media presence)? For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. Seems like a pretty easy thing to stay clear of. I get the concern you're expressing, but not everything is a s…

> not everything is a slippery slope From a risk management perspective, this does not seem like a safe assumption to make. The DailyStormer got "canceled" by vendors for not even trying to moderate content that actively promoted violence (among other horrible things). Now Parlor gets "canceled" by vendors for not doing a good enough job trying to moderate content promoting violence. The bar for getting "canceled" is…

Why are you using quotes around the word “canceled” for the Daily Stormer.

It was literally a neo-nazi site.

Do you think the issues people had with it were somehow contrived, false, or overblown?

Why would you even bring that site up tbh?

Lol so far the bar is don’t let people plan a violent insurrection on your app.

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#849

Post by mmmmmbop » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:06 PM UTC

cactus2093 wrote: post #399

zmb_ wrote: post #321

I'm struggling to try to understand what this means for the risks of running a business in the cloud going forward. It was not just AWS dropping them, but many of their other vendors dropped them too, essentially killing their business overnight. Granted, for this first case the bar was extremely high. You needed literal storming of the Capitol and a platform seemingly specifically targeted at those people for this t…

> What are the best mitigations here, both technical and social? Vocally side with the popular issues, or try to stay completely out of them, to try to avoid becoming a target (e.g., social media presence)? For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. Seems like a pretty easy thing to stay clear of. I get the concern you're expressing, but not everything is a s…

> For now, don't attempt to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government.

I honestly have no political axe to grind here, but I distinctly remember how 4 years ago it was a legitimate talking point on the losing side that 'faithless electors' (or 'Hamilton electors') should step up to deny Trump the presidency ([1], [2]). Michael Moore offered to pay the resulting fines for any Republican faithless electors [3].

To me as an outside observer those seemed like attempts to overturn a fair democratic election and install an illegitimate government. However, neither the politics subreddit nor Michael Moore have been deplatformed. So I'm not sure the criterion you mentioned is entirely correct.

[1] https://old.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5gpmru/first_repu...

[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/meet-th...

[3] https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael-moore-appeals-gop-el...

Re: Parler drops offline after Amazon pulls support

#850

Post by eli_gottlieb » Mon, Jan 11, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

riversflow wrote: post #688

hinkley wrote: post #587

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The result of doing nothing is that in 15 years, the US becomes Germany, pre-WW2. You can think of it as vendors getting 'canceled' for progressively less severe offenses. Or. You can think of it as people waking up to offenses that have been allowed to go unchallenged for way too fucking long. People 'waking up' or no longer keeping their heads down being the result of the current administration transitioning to a L…

>in 15 years, the U.S. becomes Germany, pre-WW2 >the price of freedom is eternal vigilance. The irony of censoring people being, “the price of freedom”. Serious question, why do you think that disenfranchising groups of their ability to communicate online is going to prevent social strife and violence instead of intensifying it? Banning theDonald didn’t help, the Daily Stormer being banished from the web didn’t chang…

>This, “conservatives are turning into literal nazis” narrative is extremely toxic to public discourse and needs to completely stop.

I would never refer to a conservative who recognizes the legitimate results of our free and fair elections as a Nazi! Now the question is, why in the flying MOTHERFUCK do I need that qualifier?