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Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

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Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#171

Post by tomlagier »

cabaalis wrote: post #75
aaomidi wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem. I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks. A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything: 1. Yes I am fi…

I think this black and white view is how the constitution was written, and in boolean logic would be how it is designed. But reality has many shades of grey. Would you trust your personal banking to an institution with history of leaking/mishandling/selling everything about you, or losing records of your balance? Would you trust your health information to a doctor with previous history of kickbacks, malpractice, lax…

> Would you trust your health information to a doctor with previous history of kickbacks, malpractice, lax HIPAA compliance?

It's entirely possible that you do.

An enlightening This American Life episode dives in to who gets to keep their medical license and how they may continue practicing after grievous ethical violations: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/719/trust-me-im-a-doctor

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#172

Post by s1artibartfast »

mrmuagi wrote: post #106
offtop5 wrote: post #49

Society needs to have something between jaywalking and attempted murder. Right now if you fish without a permit in the wrong place you're a felon and you will never be able to get a decent job for the rest of your life. The entire reason the American criminal justice system is like this, at its core is to punish minority groups. I don't ever see this changing, and it's a big part of why I want to make an exit by 40.…

> fish without a permit in the wrong place Are these ecological concerns, ie. protected species or preventing over fishing, or trespassing concerns? I tried searching 'fishing' + 'felon' and I couldn't whip up any laws.

Yes, these situations are usually but not always tied to taking of species that are protected. This can be tied to poaching or recreational take.

Taking fish or invertebrates which are undersized is often a misdemeanor. Repeat offense can turn into a felony and jail time. First time harassment or take of marine mammals can also be a felony.

Source: I had a run-in where I was charged with a misdemeanor which was dropped after hiring a lawyer and making a substantial donation to a charity of the Judge's choice, which was a condition of the plea. Really informed my view on the subject.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#173

Post by _underfl0w_ »

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #53
cubano wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

Is getting records expunged not a option in your case or in many case? My understanding is that at least most non-violent offences could be expunged or sealed after N years of completing your sentence. I'm certainly not an expert so it would be interesting to know how that process can or can not apply.

To echo a sibling comment - an attorney once explained to me that, while it is illegal for background checking services to provide outdated/inaccurate data, there is no strict legal timeline requiring them to update their records. Meaning that, even post-expungement or post-sealing (and associated time + legal fees) there's still a non-insignificant chance that a potential employer might learn of your charge(s), even after taking legal action to clean up your record.

Incidentally, I've also once been told by a Hiring Manager family member of mine that for minor charges it might be best *not* to seal them, since that would leave a potential employer guessing and likely assuming that it was something serious as opposed to something small or common, e.g. a marijuana-related misdemeanor.

IANAL, obviously.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#174

Post by elindbe3 »

charlescearl wrote: post #122

Ruth Wilson Gilmore [1,2], Angela Davis [3.4] and many, many others have been making the case for decades that the entirety of the prison system needs to be abolished. Among the more profound cases that Gilmore makes is that the it is not just for-profit prisons and policing. Racialized exclusion of Black people from the economy has essentially created a captive class -- a pool of bodies for exploitation. Essentially…

It's an interesting idea. Can you give a TLDR of how it would work in practice? Cowboy justice?

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#175

Post by _underfl0w_ »

SubuSS wrote: post #67
clairity wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thanks for relating your incarceration story. with the benefit of hindsight, 'tough on crime' was plainly power exerting itself on the populace to enhance its own esteem, not an exercise in creating a more just society. let's cut every sentence (and sentencing guidelines) by 90% right off the bat and use the savings for better rehabilitation programs (like more support systems, instructional content, and training pro…

I can sympathize with how this will work out for non-career criminals. How do you see this working out for repeat offenders? Seattle today has a mini-version of this FWIW: We have offenders who have 44+ counts of 'minor' arrests and a felony conviction on the street [1] getting involved in public shootings. Overall I like the part where folks who have paid their dues get their life back through a measured re-introduc…

Perhaps it would be as simple as making punishment scale with the number or recurrences? Maybe not even linearly.

Not necessarily in a "received 4 counts of xyz" situation, but maybe increasing punishment nonlinearly in situations like "received a 4th count of xyz in the past 10 years". Chronologically/temporally separate incident #4 should carry more weight than #1, since the offender probably should've learned their lesson after #2.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#176

Post by [deleted] »

bdamm wrote: post #103
Chris2048 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would trust the state to decide if a sexual predators is safe to teach your children?

The thing is... who else would decide? Isn't it the function of the state to make decisions based on information that is not available to the general public?

[deleted]

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#177

Post by ge96 »

jawzz wrote: post #132
ge96 wrote: post #55

I got mad lucky in college, I was in a parking lot arrested for possession (was smoking) it was a tiny amount like a keyfob worth. It was reduced to a parking fine that I had to pay in court. That could have destroyed me (permanent label) if that was bigger. This was like 8-10 years ago. I am asian if it matters.

Has the record of arrest (and charge, if you were initially charged with possession before it was reduced) affected you at all, to your knowledge?

Well it was not recorded as that, it was just a "parking fine". What's why I'm saying I'm lucky it wasn't logged as substance possession. Also by arrested I mean handcuffed/put into a car, but I wasn't taken to a jail. I was just written a possession fine/piece of paper.

I think the answer to your question is I was not affected. As I've taken jobs that had to do security checks to get in and I got through. I guess it depends what they're looking for.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#178

Post by oytis »

mbbutler wrote: post #146
oytis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Results' present the new knowledge gained in a short form. 'Discussion' is normally an invitation to scientific discussion, not a political one. But even if it has the latter, it's still not the result of a study, just a piece of opinion that authors saw appropriate to include. The paper [1] really seems more like a call to action from ethicists published in a scientific journal as a study for whatever reason. [1] h…

Yes, the authors published their article in the Journal of Bioethics, which is exactly where this type of article/argument is supposed to be published. What is your complaint exactly?

I disagree that the purpose of ethics as an academic discipline is to tell people what to do.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#179

Post by oytis »

i_love_limes wrote: post #115
oytis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Results' present the new knowledge gained in a short form. 'Discussion' is normally an invitation to scientific discussion, not a political one. But even if it has the latter, it's still not the result of a study, just a piece of opinion that authors saw appropriate to include. The paper [1] really seems more like a call to action from ethicists published in a scientific journal as a study for whatever reason. [1] h…

You started off with the idea that research papers "can't tell you what should be done", which it seems like you disagree with now? > 'Discussion' is normally an invitation to scientific discussion, not a political one To think that those are so distinct is perhaps naive. Thanks for the link, it does seem to be a call to action as you said, but backed by many studies across many disciplines. Which would make it both…

It was more meant as an imperative, as in, "a president can't despise his own citizens", even though we empirically know it's not true, but...

To me is a huge abuse of the authority of science. The results of science normally lie above any democratic discussion. No mater how you vote and what your values are COVID-19 exists, and global warming exists either. If you publish an opinion piece - even if it's a well-informed opinion - as a scientific paper, you are basically saying "here's what the policy should be, and you're not entitled to discuss it, because we know better".

I'm not against scientists having an informed opinion an political matter, and I'm not even against scientific journals publishing opinions if they consider them important enough, but there should be a distinction in this case between the part where science is published and the opinion column.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#180

Post by rwmurrayVT »

pmiller2 wrote: post #21
TLightful wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be held in the legal records? In which case, a judgement can be made?

Compared to someone's record of convictions, that information is pretty inaccessible. You'd have to go all the way back to court records at the time of their conviction.

They make it very easy on the federal level with PACER and in the majority of states with an equivalent.
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