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Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

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Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#51

Post by Hello71 »

pmiller2 wrote: post #21
TLightful wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be held in the legal records? In which case, a judgement can be made?

Compared to someone's record of convictions, that information is pretty inaccessible. You'd have to go all the way back to court records at the time of their conviction.

as implied in a cousin comment, I don't think this applies if they're currently incarcerated. at least at the federal level, the BOP should have records of who was sentenced with firearms or other violent sentencing modifiers in order to properly segregate them from non-violent offenders. that wouldn't work for the idea of purging their records, but for the OP argument, it ought to work reasonably well. for the rare cases where it doesn't, some burden could be put on the inmate to collect and submit their documents for approval, the same as if they were filing an appeal.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#52

Post by greedo »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #38

Kind of a funny moment in time we live in where some are clamoring to put people in jail for tweets/hate speech/mean words while simultaneously advocating for lower jail populations.

Incitement to riot/insurrection isn't "mean words."

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#53

Post by KingMachiavelli »

cubano wrote: post #35
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

Is getting records expunged not a option in your case or in many case? My understanding is that at least most non-violent offences could be expunged or sealed after N years of completing your sentence. I'm certainly not an expert so it would be interesting to know how that process can or can not apply.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#54

Post by aaomidi »

cubano wrote: post #35
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

The call to end prisons, police funding, and prison funding is partially to solve this exact problem.

I don't think ANYONE should be able to request a federal background check. I don't think background checks should be allowed for employment or housing. Same as credit checks.

A person is either safe enough to be in society, or not. There should NEVER be an in between state. And before you say anything:

1. Yes I am fine with previously convicted murderers living in the same building as me. Teaching my children. And being my co-worker. I want to be able to trust the "justice" system to allow people back into society when they're able to.

2. Yes I'm fine with sexual predators living in the same building as me. Teaching my children. And being my co-worker. For the same aforementioned reasons.

3. Yes. I'm fine with any person with any crime history that the courts and various other medical institutions have deemed that they can be a normal citizen to do what they want.

For the group of people that "maybe they're safe but we're not sure but we don't want to keep them in prison". Then you need to give them a very good stipend and let them live in relative peace. Also, don't limit their housing. Housing limits should never be done. Think of this situation as a "disability payment", because it is a state induced disability.

What someone did in the past shouldn't matter to anyone if that person has been rehabilitated.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#55

Post by ge96 »

I got mad lucky in college, I was in a parking lot arrested for possession (was smoking) it was a tiny amount like a keyfob worth.

It was reduced to a parking fine that I had to pay in court. That could have destroyed me (permanent label) if that was bigger.

This was like 8-10 years ago. I am asian if it matters.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#56

Post by jackthehammer »

cubano wrote: post #35
rwmurrayVT wrote: post #7

The #1 issue in the USA beyond simple conviction and incarceration is rehabilitation. At the federal level, where I have personal experience, it seems like it's entirely retribution instead of rehabilitation. I was in a federal prison camp and it is primarily an exercise in leisure. The entire day was composed of well.. nothing. If you like reading, fresh air, and exercise you're in luck. If you like alcohol, drugs,…

> The problem after that is the stigma that follows you around forever. Tell me about it. Between my prison "stigma" and the discriminatory ageism that is very prevalent in the industry, and even though I have 30 years professional programming experience, I am currently finding it impossible to find any work. Can someone please tell me...what am I supposed to do at age 55? Find a new "career"...doing what? I know ple…

Forget about "hiring", "secure jobs" and "paychecks": you sound like a contractor, not an employee. Either hire on with a consulting firm or open your own.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#57

Post by elric »

neogodless wrote: post #39
m-p-3 wrote: post #34

And the root cause of the problem is as long as for-profit prisons exists, there is no incentive to free those non-violent criminals.

Not disagreeing on incentive but for clarification... My understanding would be that freeing non-violent criminals would be a matter of legislation and the court system. The choice would not be up to the prison. But do you think the prisons influence the legislation (or, horrifically, the judicial system)? To say that it's a the root cause is to say that for-profit prisons drive legislation on drugs, but I do not bel…

Looking at the history of slavery and prison labour in the US, I'm not sure I share your optimism. Many new (and victimless) crimes were introduced after slavery was abolished, and slavery was never abolished in prisons. Locking someone up for "vagrancy" and then forcing them to work for you does sound an awful lot like slavery.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#59

Post by bpodgursky »

rwmurrayVT wrote: post #16
whiddershins wrote: post #2

First of all, I basically agree with this. Here’s something I don’t know: Sometimes I wonder whether some people in prison for non-violent drug offenses did a plea bargain down from a violent offense. And if that were the case, should this affect our opinion on any of this?

On the federal level in the USA that is not possible. Firearms and violence add on points to your sentencing and are often linked with mandatory minimums. Firearms in particular really tank your chances of a short sentence. Prior to the First Step Act you couldn't even participate in RDAP with a firearm linked to your crime. I outlined this in a different comment, but programming like RDAP should be developed and sta…

Yeah but (almost?) nobody is in federal prison on drug possession charges, especially after the latest reform bill. There are a lot in prison on trafficking and sales, but not possession ("minor", per the headline).

The vast majority of drug charges are in state prison systems, where plea bargains are absolutely a thing.

Re: Study: All non-violent criminals jailed on minor drug offence should be released

#60

Post by avsteele »

avsteele wrote: post #58

While I agree with the conclusion. People tend to overestimate the fraction of people incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses. It is only ~15% https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2020.html

And I'm assuming they mean incarcerated (jail+prison) and not just 'jail'. Most of the people in jail are awaiting trial, people in prison have been convicted.
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