Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#301

Post by yuchi » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:47 PM UTC

x32n23nr wrote: post #246

yuchi wrote: post #213

A fairly famous italian band[1] has a line in one of their songs which I cannot shake off me: > Mi sono rotto il cazzo che non sono d’accordo con te / ma morirei affinché tu possa dire la tua stronzata which translates to: > I’m fucking sick of the fact that I do not agree with you / but I would die for you to be able to express your bullshits. The news at hand give me hope that the US (and the world by extension) is…

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - from Evelyn Beatrice Hall in her book: The Friends of Voltaire. The quote is an illustration of Voltaire's beliefs.

As said to the other commenter, I was unaware of it. Thank you for pointing out. Makes a lot of sense.

This gives a different intepretation to the song as you can treat the whole phrase as a quote and that means «I’m sick of this» while I naively believed there was some doubt and uncertainty from the authors.

Apparently they are just agreeing with the so called “cancel culture” or censoring

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#302

Post by vladTheInhaler » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:47 PM UTC

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #223

Barrin92 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people are straight up calling for murder on that website, it's insane. There's no negotiating. "Let me call for violence on the internet, or I'll go out and actually shoot someone" is nuts. That's not someone you negotiate with, that's a person that belongs into a mental ward. Authority does not need to back down because someone threatens terrorism. And yes before other events are invoked, that goes for all form of…

Are you claiming nobody has ever called for murder on Facebook or Twitter? By your line of reasoning those apps should be taken down too. We know for a fact that Facebook and Twitter have been the direct causes of far more numerous deaths than Parler. How do you reconcile this view?

Because Twitter and Facebook have policies against doing those things, and they enforce them. That's why so many right-wing extremists complain about being "de-platformed" - they're mad that Facebook isn't letting them agitate for martial law, the kidnapping of governors, etc.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Post by nicbou » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:47 PM UTC

AsyncAwait wrote: post #132

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

I get what you're saying but the other side of the coin is maybe the society at large is rejecting them. And they need to understand that they're not guaranteed an audience, If the society at large doesn't want to listen then they'll have to sloowly try to win some support. They seem to forget that many on the left fought tooth and nail historically for things we now consider for granted but society wasn't on board f…

If they were a fringe movement I'd be inclined to agree, but they're half the voter base. They can't possibly all be violent bigots.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#304

Post by soupson » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously? Fox News’ ad revenues beg to differ.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#305

Post by Jommi » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:48 PM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #238

WindyLakeReturn wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that ultimately led to This seems a very dangerous line of reasoning. For example, I wonder how many violent crimes alcohol ultimately led to. How many violent crimes Facebook ultimately led to. How many violent crimes encryption ultimately led to. In a court of law, there is a distinction drawn between different events leading up to a crime, with a great deal of thought put into which of those events can be held r…

The difference here will be the whether Parler was negligent. If they had calls for violence on their platform that were reported to them, and their community moderation team was so short-staffed that they didn't act on them, Parler could have culpability. Facebook, et al have moderation mechanisms that can probably withstand scrutiny, but Parler sounds like an extremely lean operation that the discovery process may…

I don't get it.

Excuse the analogy but are you staying that if someone plans a protest in my Minecraft server, and the protest turns violent - I can be held to blame for that?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#306

Post by abernard1 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

pqhwan wrote: post #264

abernard1 wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extraordinarily tame in the scheme of American history. And as someone who lives in one of those areas of the country constantly scorned, belittled, and caricatured, I can say with confidence that you do not want those people to act in kind to Antifa. There's been a lot of living vicariously through Antifa/BLM lately with portions of society that want to "stand for something." It's the same mentality as peopl…

> “If there is ever armed conflict between urban areas vs everyone else, "everyone else" in the U.S. will win overwhelmingly.” I remember back in third grade when kids would argue about how their dad would beat the others’. As I grew up, I realized that that’s not how conflicts work, and certainly not how they’re won.

> I realized that that’s not how conflicts work, and certainly not how they’re won.

Please tell that to the Afghanis.

This isn't about some civil war, it's about what would happen if Red State America decided it wanted to behave like Blue City America has been for the last year. People talk about "Proud Boys" as if that's equivalent and I just have to roll my eyes.

There is an immense reservoir of anger within America in people who feel overlooked and the system is stacked against them. If they receive the downsides of civil strife even though they haven't participated in violence, they might decide they want the upsides of civil strife as well. This culture, unlike the sadly tolerated insurrections of Antifa, has the ability to have real power through violence if it ever came to it.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#307

Post by throwaway541403 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

Acrobatic_Road wrote: post #21

This is going to lead to violence by the way.

This is exactly right. You got them off twitter. Now let them live their lives. What do you think will happen if you take everything away from them? Do you think they will just go live under a bridge and sulk?

They made a new platform, leave it alone.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#308

Post by tomp » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

lovecg wrote: post #197

hilyen wrote: post #109

People don’t seem to understand, censorship is a double edged sword. You never know who will be in charge years from now and will abuse those very same good intentioned laws & we end up a police state.

I agree. It would be very dangerous if people in charge, say, prohibited Apple (a private company) from removing Parler. Thankfully, the 1st amendment is still in power and Apple is free to express itself as it sees fit.

Not really, no. It just requires recognising that corporations are not people and thus don’t deserve freedom of speech protection. especially big corporations, which should definitely be considered “serving the public good” and therefore under even greater scrutiny.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#309

Post by mmastrac » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

throwaway3699 wrote: post #19

mmastrac wrote: post #8

Thank fucking god. These tech companies were complicit in an incompetent but serious insurrection attempt. Better late than never, but they must have known things were going to get bad. The right and the associated white supremists have far too much freedom to spread disinformation, racism and hatred. I'm sure we'll see free speech absolutists in arms about this, but today is a good day for democracy.

> I'm sure we'll see free speech absolutists in arms about this, but today is a good day for democracy. Yeah, I think I'm done with this industry. When did everyone become a fascist all of a sudden? Edit: Fascism literally means big corporations and governments imposing a moral structure on society. What Apple is doing is fascist. It's also stupidly anticompetitive by not booting Facebook and Twitter off for the same…

> Yeah, I think I'm done with this industry.

Good for you? If you think getting the alt-right and Q-conspiracy people off easily-accessible platforms is facism, I'm glad you're leaving the industry.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Post by disruptalot » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #268

chroem- wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proposing to remove a very large, very alienated group's last public channel to express themselves peacefully. This risks further escalation. This is compounded with the stark contrast to how the protests were handled this summer.

I'd posit two things: Who on earth says they need or deserve a "public channel to express themselves"? The world seemed to get by just fine before social media existed, and I have no doubt we'd all be perfectly fine if it were gone tomorrow. If the white supremacists are stuck going back to physically mailing letters around and struggling to organize that's a net win for society... Where exactly did you come to the c…

> Who on earth says they need or deserve a "public channel to express themselves"?

This is prime "Free Speech for Me - But Not for Thee".

You're making a very easy generalization. Not any significant portion of people expressing themselves contributed to any of the events you are mentioning. It's funny because you can read the exact same thought process from the opposite side, against say the BLM protests.