Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#261

Post by Mountain_Skies » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

We already know from history what happens when large groups are disenfranchised from the public sphere. Violence. Lots of it. And once it starts, it's not easily stopped. Some welcome this because they think it can be managed for their own purposes. But once civil order breaks down, things simply accelerate with no possibility of talk being able to stop it anymore. It takes on a life of its own. Those who dream of the power they can seize once the violence starts are completely delusional. The winners and losers cannot be predicted ahead of time. There's no good path through it but this does appear to be the path that some have decided to force society down. Doubt most of them are even aware that this is what they're doing.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#262

Post by ENOTTY » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

There are a lot of posts on Parler calling for violence, which violate Parler's terms of service. Parler itself doesn't appear to have strategy for moderating these posts.

Apple's ultimatum demands Parler implement a plan for enforcing its own terms of service, and reduce the probability that Parler is used to incite violence.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#263

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

eloff wrote: post #145

decebalus1 wrote: post #30

Before anyone starts complaining about censorship or free speech in the context of the first amendment, I'll just leave this here: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18682099/supreme-court-ru... Along with the actual text from the constition: AMENDMENT I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or…

The first amendment doesn't apply to private platforms or spaces. Perhaps it should when those platforms develop monopoly levels of control over distribution.

[deleted]

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#264

Post by pqhwan » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

abernard1 wrote: post #210

Traster wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further escalation beyond storming the capitol? Becuase that's what tolerance has resulted in.

This is extraordinarily tame in the scheme of American history. And as someone who lives in one of those areas of the country constantly scorned, belittled, and caricatured, I can say with confidence that you do not want those people to act in kind to Antifa. There's been a lot of living vicariously through Antifa/BLM lately with portions of society that want to "stand for something." It's the same mentality as peopl…

> “If there is ever armed conflict between urban areas vs everyone else, "everyone else" in the U.S. will win overwhelmingly.”

I remember back in third grade when kids would argue about how their dad would beat the others’. As I grew up, I realized that that’s not how conflicts work, and certainly not how they’re won.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#265

Post by abernard1 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

AshleyGrant wrote: post #217

whatshisface wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of higher steps, just look at US history. For example, the mob could murder someone. In the bad old days of civil rights resistance, the mob would regularly engage in homicide against targets they thought were upsetting their power.

They DID murder someone. US Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick.

He died of a stroke. That's not exactly murder.

On the other hand, Capitol police killed 4 unarmed citizens. If this were a BLM rally, and those people were black, we would never hear the end of it. We'd have to "say their name," irrespective of the circumstances of their death.

The woman who was killed on video is effectively nameless. She won't receive any encomiums or major press coverage.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#266

Post by subsubzero » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

mlyle wrote: post #221

subsubzero wrote: post #165

I don't understand what people don't get about the 1st amendment. A right to free speech, is set in stone in the US Constitution, a private company can enforce their own censorship, but having a company that wants to have the 1st amendment and is being forced to be shut down is not what the US is about. Threats and actions to commit treason should be handled by authorities and prosecuted. But someone saying they don'…

> I don't understand what people don't get about the 1st amendment. A right to free speech, is set in stone in the US Constitution, a private company can enforce their own censorship, but having a company that wants to have the 1st amendment and is being forced to be shut down is not what the US is about. Are you saying that Apple should be compelled to help Parler and amplify their speech/give them a platform?

First:

>Threats and actions to commit treason should be handled by authorities and prosecuted.

Lets start off there, anything related to violence/physical harm has no place, anything else, its totally fair game, and is protected by the 1st amendment.

If you think Parler does a poor job of moderation and stuff being said on there offends you, guess what, don't download the app and don't use it.

Second:

As far as amplifying Parler, would you mean put it on the list of top apps? I don't think Apple is doing that. I am not a fan of Parler and its content but I am an absolute fan of the 1st amendment and all that it entails.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#267

Post by input_sh » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:39 PM UTC

jonnycomputer wrote: post #181

Of course, this isn't shutting down Parler, it's about removing an app from a store. Cry me a river that they'd have to log in using their phone browser or something. And let's be honest here: even a platform under 230 is not immune to consequences for facilitating a coup or an insurrection, I would have to believe, though I am not a lawyer.

230 has a "Good Samaritan" portion. In simplest terms, if the platform does its best to remove illegal content, it's good. Parler is definitely not doing that.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#268

Post by tw04 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:40 PM UTC

chroem- wrote: post #51

Pxtl wrote: post #22

There's an amusing irony in the downvotes in this thread. The champions of free-speech angry that Apple might ban a platform for speech that ultimately led to an attempted insurrection? These champions of free speech seem to be agressively trying to silence anybody happy about this news.

You're proposing to remove a very large, very alienated group's last public channel to express themselves peacefully. This risks further escalation. This is compounded with the stark contrast to how the protests were handled this summer.

I'd posit two things:

Who on earth says they need or deserve a "public channel to express themselves"? The world seemed to get by just fine before social media existed, and I have no doubt we'd all be perfectly fine if it were gone tomorrow. If the white supremacists are stuck going back to physically mailing letters around and struggling to organize that's a net win for society...

Where exactly did you come to the conclusion they're expressing themselves peacefully? So far we've had the Capitol stormed, and a thwarted attempt at kidnapping and murdering a state governor. Neither of those two events are anything resembling "peaceful".

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#269

Post by bastawhiz » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:40 PM UTC

metiscus wrote: post #50

ironman1478 wrote: post #17

Just ban it and don't let it back, lets be done with this.

Moving the discourse further away from the light won't help cure the divide in this country. We need more discussion, not less. We need to get both sides talking to each other not to themselves about each other.

> We need more discussion, not less. We need to get both sides talking to each other

Parler heavily moderates away any non-right-wing content. There was never "both sides" on Parler. If it's actively being used to plan and execute acts of violence (arguably terrorism, given the death, bombs, and more that we've seen this week), how does keeping Parler around bring anyone together?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#270

Post by _euac » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 11:40 PM UTC

mnouquet wrote: post #184

_euac wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only chance in hell this country has of surviving is if Republicans widely condemn Trump's behavior and make an example of other agitators like Rudy Giuliani and Alex Jones who whipped these people into a frenzy. If there are no consequences, they'll only get the message that they can do whatever they want and things will only get worse.

> The only chance in hell this country has of surviving is if Republicans widely condemn It won't change a single thing, at best, those elected official will be considered traitors / pussies.

It will. Plenty of people in my own family who've been Trump staunch Trump supporters through thick and thin were appalled by what happened on Wednesday. If the Republicans want to heal the country, they have to reassure these people that there is a path to normalcy and it involves rejecting this kind of extremism.

The worst thing Republicans can do is pretend it's all business as usual and force these people to choose between 'the evil Democrats' (who they won't support, ever) or 'our guy who might try a coup here and there but at least is on our side'.