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Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

write.privacytools.io

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Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#101

Post by freddyym »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #67
freddyym wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if the post comes off as perfunctory, my last post on the topic had the opposite affect [1], so I tried to tone it down a little. Also, as the author, I whole-heartedly recommend reading the aformentioned papers. [1] https://lobste.rs/s/mrlfwh/why_privacy_matters_even_if_you_h...

That page links to [0] which is a broken link, is it no longer available? [0] https://write.privacytools.io/privacy-simplified/why-privacy...

Ahh, yes that link is broken. Here is an archived version:

https://web.archive.org/web/20191224125253/https://write.pri...

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#102

Post by ProAm »

type0 wrote: post #99
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

I really like Social Cooling's take on privacy ( http://www.socialcooling.com/ ). SC's take (paraphrasingly, of course) is that without privacy, you're only rewarded for astroturfing your life & feigning a blandly successful life without pot holes. The Social Dilemma (Netflix docudrama)'s take on it -- that facebook-et-al don't sell "your data" they sell "a guaranteed change in your behavior" -- is also a pretty damn…

> but this post should've been more focused on education from the get-go Meanwhile many schools are rolling out Chromebooks and are happy about it.

Schools are doing that because they are cheap and easy. Funding in schools (at least in the US) is extremely difficult. If Google is going to subsidize your hardware and software in exchange for your habits I can see why schools are left with almost no choice.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#103

Post by Rooster61 »

matz1 wrote: post #94
Rooster61 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe its none of yours or anyone else's damned business. Point is it's not incumbent on a person to explain WHY they need or want that privacy.

So privacy matters because 'thats your business'. Then it is equally valid for some other people to say privacy doesn't matter because 'none of yours or anyone else's damned business'. If you trying to convince other why privacy matters, thats not going to be helpful.

> So privacy matters because 'thats your business'

> If you trying to convince other why privacy matters, thats not going to be helpful.

I'm not trying to. I'm pointing out that I, nor anyone else, has to. You aren't entitled to know why one wants privacy.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#104

Post by crpatino »

ProAm wrote: post #102
type0 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but this post should've been more focused on education from the get-go Meanwhile many schools are rolling out Chromebooks and are happy about it.

Schools are doing that because they are cheap and easy. Funding in schools (at least in the US) is extremely difficult. If Google is going to subsidize your hardware and software in exchange for your habits I can see why schools are left with almost no choice.

I do teach at high school level and, in general, I am unimpressed by what the current generation of education tech brings to the table. Most of them do the same stuff as the tools available 15-20 years ago (Microsoft Office, Skype, Moodle), only more clumsily/slowly and with more dependencies.

If school administration were to save money using subsidized Chromebooks, they could save even more money by stubbornly remaining in the paper age. Teachers would be happier too, and students would at the very least be not worse off; I am even willing to say that they would be forced to learn analog skills that are desperately needed nowadays.

In short, I do not buy that it is lack of options that force schools to buy those products. It is the evil wizardry called "Marketing" that bewitch school administrators and prevent them to see the options in front of their noses.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#105

Post by selfhoster11 »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #76
selfhoster11 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's expected that not much embarrassing information would be out in the open under a person's full name. I have nothing against giving my name to in-person acquaintances, simply because they don't have access to the right resources to dig under the surface of my public image. If they do have access to such resources, I trust them anyway to not pry too hard.

Many companies publish various details about their empoyers under their name which an employer can't refuse; the same for a university. My master's thesis and place of employ can freely be retrieved from my name and there is nothing I can do to hide this.

What professionally inappropriate information do you have published about you by academic institutions and former places of work, or alternatively by you in your masters thesis?

I am not a proponent of "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" (quite the opposite, in fact), but disclosure of your information under academic and professional context is not only unavoidable, but actually beneficial. As long as the information is reported honestly, it serves as a public record of your positive reputation. This allows all the participants of the job ecosystem to make better decisions about hiring/accepting job offers, because it reduces the risk of the unknown. It's to be embraced, not avoided.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#106

Post by matz1 »

Rooster61 wrote: post #103
matz1 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So privacy matters because 'thats your business'. Then it is equally valid for some other people to say privacy doesn't matter because 'none of yours or anyone else's damned business'. If you trying to convince other why privacy matters, thats not going to be helpful.

> So privacy matters because 'thats your business' > If you trying to convince other why privacy matters, thats not going to be helpful. I'm not trying to. I'm pointing out that I, nor anyone else, has to. You aren't entitled to know why one wants privacy.

fair enough, then likewise you aren't entitled to know why other don't want privacy.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#107

Post by cle »

Grimm1 wrote: post #90
serial_dev wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is the least likely to make me care about privacy (though in some cases it could work). "Advertisers will be able to select you based on your history"... For what? For showing you an ad for the cool pants company that produces just the kind of pants you've always wanted? For an awesome, in-depth coding course? I'd rather get relevant ads than generic crap that I don't care about, even if it makes me spe…

To use your profile to target you based on political ideology to influence your opinion in ways that can possibly be against your own interest and to polarize you against other people. Advertising on FB was and still is even with their newer protections used wayyy outside of selling you new pants.

But that's an even weaker rhetorical strategy. You're asking people to admit that they're susceptible to psychological manipulation. It's akin to asking them to admit "I'm weak and have no control over my beliefs". The people who are most vulnerable to that kind of manipulation are exactly the ones who are unlikely to respond well to this kind of rhetoric.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#108

Post by Grimm1 »

cle wrote: post #107
Grimm1 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To use your profile to target you based on political ideology to influence your opinion in ways that can possibly be against your own interest and to polarize you against other people. Advertising on FB was and still is even with their newer protections used wayyy outside of selling you new pants.

But that's an even weaker rhetorical strategy. You're asking people to admit that they're susceptible to psychological manipulation. It's akin to asking them to admit "I'm weak and have no control over my beliefs". The people who are most vulnerable to that kind of manipulation are exactly the ones who are unlikely to respond well to this kind of rhetoric.

I'm responding the the question the op posed "For what?" and then proceeded to offer the most innocuous thing advertising does when there are far more well known malicious things happening every day.

I agree this won't convince people for the reason you've stated I just want to make sure we're all on the same page about the actual level of harm that happens.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#109

Post by bonestamp2 »

pkulak wrote: post #97
CaptArmchair wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to go into a different direction: "Sure, you don't have anything to hide today. But what about tomorrow? Or next year?" Did you know that law enforcement and justice can request and will try to gain access to data you share with any company? "Oh, but I have done nothing wrong." The definition of "nothing wrong" isn't set in stone. It's always up for interpretation. You might feel you're doing nothing wrong, bu…

The "But I've done nothing wrong" response always reminds me of this talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Exactly. You know inside that you have done nothing wrong, but nobody else knows that. They can only look at the available evidence and if they're talking to you it's because the evidence is spotty.

So, now you're gambling with whether or not the spotty evidence is spotty enough to make you look innocent or guilty. Therefore, everyone has something to hide because the whole truth will not always be evident and some partial truths can make you look guilty (ex. your cell phone location was very close to a murder scene. You didn't kill anyone, you walked by the spot a few minutes before it happened).

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#110

Post by Blikkentrekker »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #105
Blikkentrekker wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many companies publish various details about their empoyers under their name which an employer can't refuse; the same for a university. My master's thesis and place of employ can freely be retrieved from my name and there is nothing I can do to hide this.

What professionally inappropriate information do you have published about you by academic institutions and former places of work, or alternatively by you in your masters thesis? I am not a proponent of "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" (quite the opposite, in fact), but disclosure of your information under academic and professional context is not only unavoidable, but actually beneficial. A…

> What professionally inappropriate information do you have published about you by academic institutions and former places of work, or alternatively by you in your masters thesis?

So pretty much the “I have nothing to hide”-argument?

There is nothing “professionally inappropriate”; I simply do not want arbitrary persons to be able to look up where I work or what my master's thesis was about and many other things.

What if I ever were to find myself having a stalker who can now easily look up my place of employ to accost me there? What if others realize what my field of expertise is due to reading my master's thesis and use that to nag me for assistance?

> I am not a proponent of "if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear" (quite the opposite, in fact), but disclosure of your information under academic and professional context is not only unavoidable, but actually beneficial. As long as the information is reported honestly, it serves as a public record of your positive reputation. This allows all the participants of the job ecosystem to make better decisions about hiring/accepting job offers, because it reduces the risk of the unknown. It's to be embraced, not avoided.

And I could surrender my master's thesis voluntarily if I were to go job hunting to my benefit.

But in my jurisdiction looking up the name online of potential employees is already not allowed, though obviously it can never really be stopped, they can't reference what they find in there without opening themselves.

You say you are not a proponent, but this is absolutely a case of “I have nothing to hide.”; you decide what information is beneficial or not. Even if it be positive information to you, it might not be to others.

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