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Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

write.privacytools.io

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Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#81

Post by treis »

bad_alloc wrote: post #4

Whenever somebody argues having nothing to hide I ask: 1) Where were you last night? 2) How much money is in your bank account? Do you have any debt? 3) What is your Debit Card PIN/account password/... 4) What is your address? Your families address? 5) Can I see your key? And so on. Everybody needs to proctect themselves and potentially others attached to them. There is a good reason for these questions being awkward…

I don't mind people seeing me eating a meal in a restaurant. I'd have a problem if someone pulled up a chair and started staring at me. You can't use intensive actions to show how minor ones are objectionable.

And further, as a rule of thumb if someone is dealing in hypotheticals it means they don't have actual proof of harm. You'd never make an argument like this if you could point to Bob Jones and say "X happened to Bob Jones and it could happen to you."

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#82

Post by pc86 »

matz1 wrote: post #79
pc86 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just absolutely wrong. I don't close the door when I use the restroom because I fear physical harm. I just don't want someone walking in while I'm using the commode.

>I just don't want someone walking in while I'm using the commode Door is not the only way to solve this issue. The question can be asked, why would someone walk in if they can see you using the commode ?

Okay so I misspoke. I don't want anyone to see I'm using the commode. That's why the door is closed. I've lived places where the bathroom door is open most of the time, so just closing it is sufficient. I've lived places where it's closed all the time (e.g. pets) so it gets locked.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#83

Post by [deleted] »

tolbish wrote: post #15
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

I really like Social Cooling's take on privacy ( http://www.socialcooling.com/ ). SC's take (paraphrasingly, of course) is that without privacy, you're only rewarded for astroturfing your life & feigning a blandly successful life without pot holes. The Social Dilemma (Netflix docudrama)'s take on it -- that facebook-et-al don't sell "your data" they sell "a guaranteed change in your behavior" -- is also a pretty damn…

I do not think it is a given that the general public feels powerless about privacy. Why would someone take steps to empower themselves if they see no need for such power?

[deleted]

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#84

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

tolbish wrote: post #15
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

I really like Social Cooling's take on privacy ( http://www.socialcooling.com/ ). SC's take (paraphrasingly, of course) is that without privacy, you're only rewarded for astroturfing your life & feigning a blandly successful life without pot holes. The Social Dilemma (Netflix docudrama)'s take on it -- that facebook-et-al don't sell "your data" they sell "a guaranteed change in your behavior" -- is also a pretty damn…

I do not think it is a given that the general public feels powerless about privacy. Why would someone take steps to empower themselves if they see no need for such power?

You're right: people don't feel a need for that. And it's because all the "spying" ironically happens secretly.

May be if every person got an email every time their data is sold to the third party, things would have changed quickly.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#85

Post by novaRom »

pksebben wrote: post #53
hooande wrote: post #25

The point is that the majority of people live boring lives and don't have enough wealth to be a valuable target. I certainly fall into this category. I'm not important or interesting enough that anyone is going to look into me. It's possible that one day I'll become very important and then I'll wish that I had kept various embarrassing things from getting out. It's also possible that I'll become a billionaire. Neithe…

the point of making a philosophical argument about it is to avoid the inevitable practical problems posed. We're there already, too. Adtech data has been bought by the Pentagon for use in targeting individuals overseas for military operations. This is quite literally not a drill. Whether or not you believe you have nothing to hide is immaterial, too; there are some people in the world who might disagree with you (for…

It also works in reverse. I argue many politicians are being controlled, mostly unconsciously, or with gentle hints.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#86

Post by piyh »

meowster wrote: post #64
bad_alloc wrote: post #4

Whenever somebody argues having nothing to hide I ask: 1) Where were you last night? 2) How much money is in your bank account? Do you have any debt? 3) What is your Debit Card PIN/account password/... 4) What is your address? Your families address? 5) Can I see your key? And so on. Everybody needs to proctect themselves and potentially others attached to them. There is a good reason for these questions being awkward…

Instead of those questions, just ask them if they have blinds or curtains on their windows at home. It's better to show that they already take steps to be private rather than asking privacy-invasive questions. One of those makes you the bad guy, the other shows that they actually do value privacy.

Or the more direct, "Do you shit with the door open?"

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#87

Post by serial_dev »

brnt wrote: post #63
inanutshellus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, let's build something here. The current article argues in its opening that "nobody cares" ... The immediate retort to any "nobody cares" statement -- before one even finishes the sentence -- is "then it's probably for a good reason." It's counter-productive and frames your argument from the "weak outsider" perspective. So if we ought to frame our argument from a position of competence rather than insecurity (my…

If the subject comes up, I ask the question: "how to you think Facebook makes money?" I try to educate them on the business side of their social media: what does it look like when you start a Facebook ad-campaign? Select users by criteria, sometimes very complex and precise criteria. How do you feel about an advertiser selecting $subgroup-closely-resembling-partner-in-conversation? I don't think I'm changing many min…

This argument is the least likely to make me care about privacy (though in some cases it could work).

"Advertisers will be able to select you based on your history"... For what? For showing you an ad for the cool pants company that produces just the kind of pants you've always wanted? For an awesome, in-depth coding course? I'd rather get relevant ads than generic crap that I don't care about, even if it makes me spend more money.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#88

Post by Razengan »

tolbish wrote: post #15
inanutshellus wrote: post #9

I really like Social Cooling's take on privacy ( http://www.socialcooling.com/ ). SC's take (paraphrasingly, of course) is that without privacy, you're only rewarded for astroturfing your life & feigning a blandly successful life without pot holes. The Social Dilemma (Netflix docudrama)'s take on it -- that facebook-et-al don't sell "your data" they sell "a guaranteed change in your behavior" -- is also a pretty damn…

I do not think it is a given that the general public feels powerless about privacy. Why would someone take steps to empower themselves if they see no need for such power?

> Why would someone take steps to empower themselves if they see no need for such power?

Try telling someone, even a close friend, that you saw them doing something, while they did not expect to be seen by anyone.

I will give you $5 if they are not in the slightest bit annoyed by that.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#89

Post by matz1 »

pc86 wrote: post #82
matz1 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just don't want someone walking in while I'm using the commode Door is not the only way to solve this issue. The question can be asked, why would someone walk in if they can see you using the commode ?

Okay so I misspoke. I don't want anyone to see I'm using the commode. That's why the door is closed. I've lived places where the bathroom door is open most of the time, so just closing it is sufficient. I've lived places where it's closed all the time (e.g. pets) so it gets locked.

>I don't want anyone to see I'm using the commode

so then why ? maybe because of shame. So then its the shame that need to be fixed.

Re: Privacy matters even if “you have nothing to hide”

#90

Post by Grimm1 »

serial_dev wrote: post #87
brnt wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the subject comes up, I ask the question: "how to you think Facebook makes money?" I try to educate them on the business side of their social media: what does it look like when you start a Facebook ad-campaign? Select users by criteria, sometimes very complex and precise criteria. How do you feel about an advertiser selecting $subgroup-closely-resembling-partner-in-conversation? I don't think I'm changing many min…

This argument is the least likely to make me care about privacy (though in some cases it could work). "Advertisers will be able to select you based on your history"... For what? For showing you an ad for the cool pants company that produces just the kind of pants you've always wanted? For an awesome, in-depth coding course? I'd rather get relevant ads than generic crap that I don't care about, even if it makes me spe…

To use your profile to target you based on political ideology to influence your opinion in ways that can possibly be against your own interest and to polarize you against other people. Advertising on FB was and still is even with their newer protections used wayyy outside of selling you new pants.
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