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The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

taibbi.substack.com

631–640 of 981 posts

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#631

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

> The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You cannot turn the entire world into West Coast USA by banning everyone that disagrees with you. You’ll only create further echo chambers, both on your own platform and on the (new) platforms inevitably created by the exiled.

And in the process you’ll create a system that will eventually alienate enough people in the middle to undermine you. Banning discussion of this—instead of letting the courts do their work—will alienate the half of the country that voted for Trump. It’ll alienate traditional liberals for whom free speech (not in the narrow legal sense but the larger social sense) is a core value. And eventually the system you’ve created will do something to overreach. The desire to censor the other side won’t end here. And at that point, the majority of people will find themselves on the other side and you’ll have a problem.

Traditional liberal values were a good thing and we should hesitate to abandon them. Liberals defended nazis marching through American cities in the name of free speech. If we can handle that we can have handle baseless claims of election fraud that are being swiftly dealt with by the courts.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#632

A lot of gymnastics in the comments here trying to justify the Youtube decision. Take a step back: If things are free-and-fair, then let transparency prove your point. As Taibbi correctly points out in his article, bending over backwards to STOP transparency and debate is simply fuel to the fire of the people who believe otherwise than you do.

You're assuming a hypothetical "informed viewer," who is able to consume multiple streams of information and make a rational choice. That's not what we're dealing with. The worst kinds of propaganda make their point with emotion, repetition, and invective. Most people can't tell the difference between that and real information. Thus, sources that seek to manipulate people will win against those that are fair and hone…

No I don't. Your point about "propaganda making their point with emotion, repetition, and invective" is a great descriptor of ALL media for the past several years, from all sides. If established elites are determining which media outlets are "correct" and which ones are "propaganda", then the disenfranchised, minorities, subjugated, and others who are outside this elite group have no way to amplify their voices without permission from the entrenched.

Then, when those groups realise they don't have legitimate means of voice, they either choose to exit (migration), or armed action.

This is the point Taibbi is making - don't back people into a corner.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#633

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

> a corporate entity to decide what information An AI algorithm.

An algorithm doesn't write or tune itself. This is unnecessary pedantry.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#634
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take the bait in the spirit of casual friday night internet debating and recognizing your tone as purely sarcastic. I would ask then... What if, there was in fact an organization comprised of people smarter than you and obviously better than you at figuring out what is true or not - and I would go further - one that can tell you how to make better/more optimal decisions than you would have made without them? Wou…

I’m not going to answer your exact question and instead respond with an alternative: Nobody blames AT&T/Verizon when an absurd scammer calls you, or a grandpa wife’s money to a Nigerian scammer because of a phone call. Think long and hard about why you blame Facebook/YouTube for the same. You’ll inevitably coalesce around the idea that these “platforms” did it to themselves by Arbitrarily banning legal content.

Totally blame the carriers. They can easily detect and block robodialers.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#635

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

> The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You cannot turn the entire world into West Coast USA by banning everyone that disagrees with you. You’ll only create further echo chambers, both on your own platform and on the (new) platforms inevitably created by the exiled. And in the process…

The half of the country that voted for Trump is already alienated. They're fully prepared to destroy every American institution, simply because Trump them that they should. As we've already seen countless times, there is no amount of rational discussion or documented evidence that will persuade them otherwise.

The question is, do the rest of us have to go along with it, or are allowed to fight back?

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#636

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

It's not about banning disagreement. It's not even about opinions. It's about combating weaponized misinformation. It's strange for Americans to be on the business side of a propaganda weapon, as we're more used to using against our enemies. Technology has finally made it feasible for malicious actors to cheaply and effectively manipulate people with lies, here in the US. If you don't believe it's a weapon, you're wr…

> And if you think the "American spirit," or somesuch nonsense, makes us immune, I hope we won't have to find out.

If anything, it makes us so much more vulnerable.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#637

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

It's not about banning disagreement. It's not even about opinions. It's about combating weaponized misinformation. It's strange for Americans to be on the business side of a propaganda weapon, as we're more used to using against our enemies. Technology has finally made it feasible for malicious actors to cheaply and effectively manipulate people with lies, here in the US. If you don't believe it's a weapon, you're wr…

Calling the opinion of someone you disagree with “weaponized disinformation” doesn’t mean it’s anything but someone else’s opinion. It is chilling that you don’t seem to know the difference between a free Press and an immediate threat to your life.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#638

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

It's not about banning disagreement. It's not even about opinions. It's about combating weaponized misinformation. It's strange for Americans to be on the business side of a propaganda weapon, as we're more used to using against our enemies. Technology has finally made it feasible for malicious actors to cheaply and effectively manipulate people with lies, here in the US. If you don't believe it's a weapon, you're wr…

What happens when the "weaponized misinformation" ends up being true?

From the article: Hunter Biden was announcing that his “tax affairs” were under investigation....That news was denounced as Russian disinformation by virtually everyone in “reputable” media, who often dismissed the story with an aristocratic snort....That tale was not Russian disinformation, however, and Biden’s announcement this week strongly suggests Twitter and Facebook suppressed a real story of legitimate public interest just before a presidential election.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You cannot turn the entire world into West Coast USA by banning everyone that disagrees with you. You’ll only create further echo chambers, both on your own platform and on the (new) platforms inevitably created by the exiled. And in the process…

The half of the country that voted for Trump is already alienated. They're fully prepared to destroy every American institution, simply because Trump them that they should. As we've already seen countless times, there is no amount of rational discussion or documented evidence that will persuade them otherwise. The question is, do the rest of us have to go along with it, or are allowed to fight back?

> They're fully prepared to destroy every American institution, simply because Trump them that they should.

Reading minds is not your strong point.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#640
post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about banning disagreement. It's not even about opinions. It's about combating weaponized misinformation. It's strange for Americans to be on the business side of a propaganda weapon, as we're more used to using against our enemies. Technology has finally made it feasible for malicious actors to cheaply and effectively manipulate people with lies, here in the US. If you don't believe it's a weapon, you're wr…

Calling the opinion of someone you disagree with “weaponized disinformation” doesn’t mean it’s anything but someone else’s opinion. It is chilling that you don’t seem to know the difference between a free Press and an immediate threat to your life.

I think you don't know what the weapon is. The weapon is wielded by people who know better: by Trump, by Giuliani, by Hannity. They know the truth, but are cynically using their platform to manipulate the population. The consequences are destructive.

The opinions are not the weapon. The opinions are the wound, caused by the weapon.

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