Live data from Hacker News

The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

taibbi.substack.com

601–610 of 981 posts

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#601

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

This is a really underrated point. This whole site is really "tech industry news" with some hacking sprinkled in, but its name at least is based on the idea of the hacker ethos. That whole thing about decentralization, distrusting authority, information being free? A curiosity for how things work and logical investigation rather than letting someone else do your thinking for you? Disinformation is a huge problem and…

I really can’t think of anything more alien to the hacker ethos than, “A group of unknown people at a technology corporation should be the ultimate authority on what I’m allowed to say, read, or share with my friends.”

Disinformation is indeed a difficult problem, but there are enough smart people in the world to figure it out without resorting to authoritarianism. We can do better.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#602

If you don't like YouTube's content policy then use something else; as many other people are now doing. Vimeo, DailyMotion, PeerTube, BitChute and so on and so forth. I'd hazard to say that this marketplace of providers and their variety of policies is quite American.

Because any of those are even close to competitors...there are 2 billion youtube users (80% of internet users). Posting this reply here since the site says Im posting too fast at a lightspeed rate of 3 comments for the day: I just dont agree with you that there is a "healthy marketplace" by all metrics youtube has a monopoly on video streaming. For instance Vimeo has 1.5 million subscribers...compared to 2000 million…

You can upload videos to them and share them freely. Doing so draws views away from YouTube that they may have otherwise enjoyed, and may expose more users to the competition.

Demanding that YouTube be regulated to be forced to carry content when a healthy marketplace of competitors exists is hilariously un-American.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying to intentionally muddy the waters here. Vaccines, masks and who won the election are not "sweeping opinions you don't like". People have actually died due to the anti-vaxx movement, leading to +50% Measle deaths in 2019. These are hard facts and these decisions are a matter of life or death. No one is blocking opinions. Trump has failed to prove election fraud in over 50 cases so far, and the safe harb…

[flagged]

What kind of pro-communism content do you see that proliferates on Youtube? And no, the kind of politics Sanders and AOC preach for are not it.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#604

These types of articles are always insane to me. YouTube is a private company. They're pretty much allowed to moderate the content on their platform in an arbitrary way. I would argue that this is a good thing. We can't have it both ways, but we want it both ways. We want a non-government controlled way to communicate, but we want to mandate that they're liable to uphold the same First Amendment protections that the…

There is a difference between "allowed to" and "ought to". It's a question of ethics, not law.

In my opinion it feels immoral for someone who has this much control over human interaction to act in a way that undermines free discourse so blatantly. To see an American company ignore the value of free speech is disheartening to me. YouTube is so popular and I wish they took a different stance on these issues.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#605

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

> a corporate entity to decide what information

An AI algorithm.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#606
post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that direct democracy doesn't scale. Switzerland has a population of 8 million; the US has a population of 330 million. Also, I'm willing to bet that Switzerland is more homogeneous than the US. And size wise, Switzerland is only larger than 9 US states. What I'm saying is that the US is huge. And diverse. It's a scaling issue.

> The difference is that direct democracy doesn't scale. I hear that every time Switzerland is mentioned. I've yet to see a strong argument to suggest why it wouldn't scale in this day and age. What I think doesn't scale is centralized systems like France, where all money flows to Paris and rarely any back. Switzerland on the other hand is extremely federated, to the point each canton, often smaller than average citi…

Yeah, the last time the US states had that level of autonomy was 1860 [1]. After 1865, the Federal government consolidated power, and more so after the 1940s [2]. It's just that in the US, most calls for more decentralization (aka "states rights") were considered a "dog whistle" for pro-slavery sentiment (or at the least, pro-racist thoughts). I think it's crazy that the US President has the power that he has (and have felt that way for the past few Presidents) and that Congress have shirked their "checks and balances" [3]---it's just been the most blatant for the last two Presidents.

It's funny you mention the school systems. They aren't centralized in the US. Heck, they aren't even necessarily centralized by the states! In the areas I've attended school, it's been by county. And even the one I graduated high school under was administratively treated as three separate school systems (because even at the county level, it was pretty large). It's one of the few areas left that haven't been completely taken over by the Federal government.

Yes, English is widely spoken in the US, but there are areas where it's a distant second. It may surprise you to learn that the US has no official language. I live in South Florida and it's not rare to encounter areas were on Spanish is spoken. There's an older dialect of German still spoken in parts of Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana. And there are areas on the West Coast where Vietnamese, Japanese and Mandarin (I think it's Mandarin is the most widely spoken Chinese language) are spoken.

I am surprised at the 20% (I found figures saying it was as high as %24) in Switzerland, but I would still contend that the US is still diverse. There are cultural differences between New England, the South, Texas, the Midwest, the Southwest and the West Coast that are probably just as deep as the French/German divide in Switzerland.

[1] Just prior the the US Civil war.

[2] Just after the Great Depression and World War II.

[3] And for all my voting life time, Congress has had lower polling numbers than any President, yet we keep electing the same yo-yos to office ("Congresscritter X is an idiot, but X is my idiot!").

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#607

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

It's not about banning disagreement. It's not even about opinions. It's about combating weaponized misinformation.

It's strange for Americans to be on the business side of a propaganda weapon, as we're more used to using against our enemies. Technology has finally made it feasible for malicious actors to cheaply and effectively manipulate people with lies, here in the US.

If you don't believe it's a weapon, you're wrong. If you don't believe weaponized misinformation is dangerous, look at the regimes it's toppled. And if you think the "American spirit," or somesuch nonsense, makes us immune, I hope we won't have to find out.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#608

Thank god for all of the people at Youtube working on censoring misinformation. They are so much smarter than me and obviously better than me at figuring out what is true and what isn't! And isn't it great that they always act selflessly in favor of the truth and never in the narrow interest of Google? I don't know what I would do if I didn't have them there to protect me from the dangerous misinformation. I am so he…

I'll take the bait in the spirit of casual friday night internet debating and recognizing your tone as purely sarcastic. I would ask then... What if, there was in fact an organization comprised of people smarter than you and obviously better than you at figuring out what is true or not - and I would go further - one that can tell you how to make better/more optimal decisions than you would have made without them? Wou…

> What if, there was in fact an organization comprised of people smarter than you and obviously better than you at figuring out what is true or not - and I would go further - one that can tell you how to make better/more optimal decisions than you would have made without them?

> Would you then cede your decision making to them if it were demonstrably better?

No. Nobody should ever have to cede their decision making authority. If this organization is so smart and right, they should have no trouble finding a way to convince people without coercion

Even, if they are smarter than me, are they perfect? Is it impossible for them to be wrong? Of course not. That's why we need multiple sources. Nobody is right about everything all the time. All of this talk about "misinformation" ignores the possibility that you might one day be a source of misinformation, so it is vitally important that people be able to disagree with you.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#609

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

It's not about banning disagreement. It's not even about opinions. It's about combating weaponized misinformation. It's strange for Americans to be on the business side of a propaganda weapon, as we're more used to using against our enemies. Technology has finally made it feasible for malicious actors to cheaply and effectively manipulate people with lies, here in the US. If you don't believe it's a weapon, you're wr…

"weaponized misinformation"

scary buzzwords are scary

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying to intentionally muddy the waters here. Vaccines, masks and who won the election are not "sweeping opinions you don't like". People have actually died due to the anti-vaxx movement, leading to +50% Measle deaths in 2019. These are hard facts and these decisions are a matter of life or death. No one is blocking opinions. Trump has failed to prove election fraud in over 50 cases so far, and the safe harb…

> If they had proof, they would've shown it in court, where there are real consequences, not on social media where anything goes. This is a great example of why censorship is such a disaster. The Texas case was dismissed today because Texas "has not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in the manner in which another State conducts its elections". So regardless of whether there was anything to complain about,…

I did know that, thank you for blindly assuming I didn't.

First off, the reason why so many of these lawsuits are dismissed for procedural mistakes is because they are taken by awful lawyers, since real election lawyers don't want to touch these with a 10 foot pole.

Secondly, again, while they claim fraud on social media and on TV, the lawyers actually don't claim fraud in court, as that's much harder to prove, and affidavits are just hearsay when it comes to proving fraud. The reality is that so far, across 50+ lawsuits, they haven't managed to show any real proof of anything.

You explained the two SC ones but still fail to explain how the other 50 or more failed, or why none of them have been able to present any real evidence. Why is it that they all have lack of standing? Because you can't overturn an entire election based on an affidavit of someone claiming they saw trucks full of ballots, with zero other evidence. And rightly so.

As for the Texas case, what a coincidence that such a baseless suit happen to have been brought by the Texas AG, who is coincidentally under investigation by the FBI, and is seeking a pardon from the President.

I'm honestly curious what YOU think the reason is. Is it just pure bad luck that all 50+ lawsuits just failed in the most miserable way? Is the court system broken? If they have real solid evidence (and no, someone signing an affidavit is not it), then where is it? Why have we not seen any yet?

But go ahead and assume it's because of censorship if it makes you happy.

EDIT: I'd also add that many of these cases are dismissed early because, even the defense can show that even if everything the plaintiff claims is true, it still isn't enough. In most of these cases, Trump's team is trying to use irregularity with a 1-2 ballots to throw out hundreds of thousands of ballots, and that's just not how it works. That's why all those lawsuits are being dismissed without even being heard because even if they prove their point, they cannot overturn the election.

Post reply on HN