The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire • Hacker News Board

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#621

Post by ehsankia » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:12 AM UTC

throwaway3699 wrote: post #436

seppin wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if the choice is between no bans and allowing the current trends of radicalization continue, almost any outcome is preferable than what we've seen happen the last 5-10 years.

Really? Things only really hit the fan when the bans scaled up. I don't ever remember things being this bad 5 years ago.

Antivaxx and other conspiracy theories on the internet weren't anywhere as big anywhere else either, you're trying to assign causation where there is none. Youtube didn't start banning antivaxx until way way after it was already massive and out of control.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#622

Post by hackyhacky » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:12 AM UTC

forgingahead wrote: post #619

A lot of gymnastics in the comments here trying to justify the Youtube decision. Take a step back: If things are free-and-fair, then let transparency prove your point. As Taibbi correctly points out in his article, bending over backwards to STOP transparency and debate is simply fuel to the fire of the people who believe otherwise than you do.

You're assuming a hypothetical "informed viewer," who is able to consume multiple streams of information and make a rational choice. That's not what we're dealing with. The worst kinds of propaganda make their point with emotion, repetition, and invective. Most people can't tell the difference between that and real information.

Thus, sources that seek to manipulate people will win against those that are fair and honest. The question is, if we as a society are just going to accept a significant proportion of our population being manipulated into accepting counterfactuals from whoever has the most Twitter followers.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#623

Post by rayiner » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:13 AM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #616

ceilingcorner wrote: post #495

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

“You’ll only create further echo chambers, both on your own platform and on the (new) platforms inevitably created by the exiled.” In case anyone is wondering, this isn’t just hypothetical. The website full30.com was created specifically because YouTube decided that talking about guns wasn’t advertiser-friendly. There weren’t that many gun-related videos that YouTube actually removed, but they started to de-monetize…

Wait, YouTube censored guns?

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#624

Post by ceilingcorner » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:13 AM UTC

hackyhacky wrote: post #618

ceilingcorner wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are assuming that the regular media is the default, the truth, and that propaganda didn’t exist prior to 2016. Read Manufacturing Consent for a brief overview of this history of widespread weaponization of information by innumerable actors. Weaponized misinformation has existed as long as human speech has existed. What is new is the democratization of it, hence the establishment’s hostility.

This is the kinds of "both-sides-ism" that gives centrists a bad reputation. You're basically saying: "everyone uses media to achieve their goals, therefore all sides are equally bad." No. Using misinformation to intentionally disrupt a democratic election is demonstrably dangerous to society. Say what you will about the "establishment," but traditional media still bear some semblance of the truth. Now we're seeing t…

I’m not a centrist and none of my points are making any centrist arguments.

Using misinformation to intentionally disrupt a democratic election is demonstrably dangerous to society.

And you think this is the first time in the history of American democracy that actors used misinformation to influence an election? Again, this is not a new phenomenon whatsoever. All that’s new is that more people have access to the technology, which makes the previous gatekeepers nervous.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#625

Post by 205guy » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:13 AM UTC

amadeuspagel wrote: post #159

hindsightbias wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the kind of freedom that existed for centuries in the US and of course we were all “free” then. While I’m sure Textualist/Originalists on the court will find innovations to legislate FB “yelling freedom” rights it has not been a historical norm.

I don't even know where to start here. Common carrier laws? The post office? Court cases forcing shopping malls and company towns to allow freedom of speech? I guess these are all innovations by the Textualist/Originalists you despise.

I remember that company towns had to allow private speech, but I never heard that shopping malls had to. I always thought that any protest or disruption or unpopular speech in a mall would get you escorted out by security.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#626

Post by forgingahead » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:14 AM UTC

ceilingcorner wrote: post #495

I find it really disconcerting how many people on Hacker News want a corporate entity to decide what information is deemed acceptable to know. Do you even know where that word came from? The irony is almost overwhelming. But I digress... The idea that banning certain information will somehow result in it disappearing has been shown repeatedly to not work. A cursory reading of history should make this clear. You canno…

It's similar to any other corporate/institutionalised group - imagine the " Anarchists", or " Communists", or so on. "Hacker" News, run by one of the most institutionalized Venture Capital companies out there, is simply marketing at this point.

Luckily, the quality of discussion for tech matters, and the players in the industry that participate, still make this place one of the best ones on the internet for technical discussion. But don't expect the political/historical/cultural/non-technical discussions to be any more insightful than any other group of people having opinions on those subjects.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#627

Post by abandonliberty » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:15 AM UTC

swiley wrote: post #2

If you reject the idea that people are intelligent enough to think about politics for themselves then you reject the idea that they're intelligent enough to govern themselves. Democracy and free speech are intrinsically linked.

There's no such thing as free speech. Speech is bought through marketing. The wealthier and more get more of it. This is inherently undemocratic, as constituents don't have equal political influence.

Dogmatic arguments suck. Is Android/Apple better?

We don't live in a democratic utopia. Instead, belief in democracy and associated values has provided maximal value creation and competitiveness generated by knowledge economies when compared to other current operating models.

That half the country is willing to dismantle what's responsible for their quality of life would be funny, if it wasn't the joy of dictators everywhere. They can point to the absurdity of mob rule as half of us bite the hand that feeds. Clearly, something is already broken.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#628

Post by ceilingcorner » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:15 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #623

parsimo2010 wrote: post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“You’ll only create further echo chambers, both on your own platform and on the (new) platforms inevitably created by the exiled.” In case anyone is wondering, this isn’t just hypothetical. The website full30.com was created specifically because YouTube decided that talking about guns wasn’t advertiser-friendly. There weren’t that many gun-related videos that YouTube actually removed, but they started to de-monetize…

Wait, YouTube censored guns?

Demonetized.

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#629

Post by TameAntelope » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:19 AM UTC

siliconc0w wrote: post #47

It is amazing to me that there are so many people, smart people even, that are adamant that we shouldn't have free speech in society.

Why does YouTube not also get a shot at free speech?

You have a right to free speech until it infringes on someone else.

The real problem is that people falsely think YouTube is the only way to publish a video on the Internet...

Re: The YouTube ban is un-American, wrong, and will backfire

#630

Post by dawnerd » Sat, Dec 12, 2020, 7:19 AM UTC

I'm for one glad YouTube is doing this. I've heard so many times from friends and such "I watched this doctor on youtube and he says"

People don't fact check and yes, I agree people should be free to post what they want, but come on. The only people really fighting against this are the ones benefiting from the misinformation being spread. If they wanted to really argue why it's a bad thing they should start discrediting people instead of using it to their advantage.