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With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

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Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#271
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance, but why do game servers ban Linux players in pvp games? Fear of some sort of modding only available on Linux?

Modern anticheats are basically kernel rootkits which go even to the point of trying to checksum your drivers and inspect how they work. They're basically as invasive as they get. They obviously can't hook into Linux kernel so they react by just banning the player.

This would be an interesting use case for eBPF.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#272
post #200

I only play two games at the moment and neither of them are viable on Linux. Call of Duty Black Ops Cold War is a non-starter even with Proton. Assetto Corsa Competizione will work, but not with my Thrustmaster wheel. Both of these are deal breakers on their own, but the real deal breaker is the uncertainty that comes with running Linux as a gamer. For example Cyberpunk 2077 comes out this week. Will it work? I have…

Cyberpunk, like any other single player title is much more likely to work than games like COD, Apex or Fortnite. Most multiplayer games use some additional components like the EAC that explicitly is made to not run on Wine AFAIK. IIRC, EAC did work on Wine until Epic games patched it so it wouldn't anymore.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#273

as i understand it the big roadblock for multiplayer AAA titles is anticheat, and dont see anyway that changes until linux eats into the MS marketshare (but it should.. linux is a joy!)

I have an anti-cheat startup, and Linux support is a big priority for us. The segmentation problem on Linux is a real challenge for us. It’s likely we will only ever be able to support the big distros, and we also are exploring using TPM remote attestation. Both of these things take away user freedom to tinker with their systems, an ability Linux enthusiasts enjoy. But with this freedom implicitly comes with the free…

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Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#274
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern anticheats are basically kernel rootkits which go even to the point of trying to checksum your drivers and inspect how they work. They're basically as invasive as they get. They obviously can't hook into Linux kernel so they react by just banning the player.

Now I'm biased because I'm an anti-cheat developer, but I really can't see how checking the integrity of your installed kernel device drivers is at all invasive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/g3yqxd/comment/fn... when the anti-cheat developers dictate what you can install and run on your computer, i would argue thats invasive. Running kernel level rootkit for this purpose is also insane. These things are very easy for cheaters to bypass anyways, and only cause problems to the honest players ironically , in addition to blocking out players using wine.

The best way to handle cheating is to give the players moderation powers.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#276
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Linux be a priority with you when actually no one use that platform at scale where anticheat matters?

For the same reason that I have decided to have our CI build and test on ARMv8, even though hardly any (PC) games are on that architecture. I try to be forward thinking, even if it may be a longshot. Apple's M1 may just bring an era of even further segmentation of desktop platforms. I want to be prepared for that.

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Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I'm biased because I'm an anti-cheat developer, but I really can't see how checking the integrity of your installed kernel device drivers is at all invasive.

As a guy who plays games that have a lot of cheaters, it is incredibly frustrating. Riot's rootkit shit is a small price to play enjoyably with friends. I care more about the experience than I do about the risk of Riot fucking up my Windows install. Keep doing what you're doing. Just, if you'd leave the anti-cheat off friend-to-friend-PvP games, that would be cool. I don't care if my younger brother 'cheats' against…

The problem with Riots anti-cheat (at least to me) was that it runs all the time not just when you're playing the game. This is completely unnecessary and a pretty huge security issue.

They've sort of fixed this now by letting you disable it, but it requires a reboot so I'm still avoiding Valorant for now.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a generic xbox 360 wireless receiver for my PC. The device drivers are an unsigned version of microsoft's drivers. Should I really have to buy the identical dongle for double the price, so that developers can dig into the depths of my OS to confirm that I'm not using a clone receiver? I honestly see both sides of it, but at the end of the day, I am always hesitant to trust software with black-box functionality…

We're already there! See hardware like the EvilController or the ConsoleTuner Titan

It doesn't seem those take the game output into account, maybe I missed something but they just seems to be controllers with scripting capabilities.

The idea of a decoupled cheat would be to acquire the game state from outside the computer running it, either by filming the screen or taping into the video output or the network input, then analyze it and run some aimbot (or any other kind of cheat) on it and finally send the cheat commands as if it came from a legitimate controller, through usb.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#279
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Linux be a priority with you when actually no one use that platform at scale where anticheat matters?

For the same reason that I have decided to have our CI build and test on ARMv8, even though hardly any (PC) games are on that architecture. I try to be forward thinking, even if it may be a longshot. Apple's M1 may just bring an era of even further segmentation of desktop platforms. I want to be prepared for that.

I work in AAA studios and I worked on online anti cheat, you won't be able to sell your anti cheat if you advertise it as working on Linux, studios don't want there game running on Linux / virtualization because of cheating.

Re: With Proton and Steam Play, many Windows games now work on Linux

#280

It's seriously astonishing how much progress has been made in the past few years regarding gaming on Linux. When I first made the jump to using Linux as a daily driver circa 2016, I had to keep a Windows partition to be able to play any game in the Steam library that wasn't native on Linux. With steady improvements to Wine and Valve's release of Proton however, I can play most games out of the box or with a minimal a…

>not to mention requiring kernel-level access, which is utterly ridiculous

Not a troll question: how do you detect cheats run at the kernel level without kernel-level access?

If you answer is "I don't want a game to have kernel level-access even if it means some cheats can't be detected", I respect that, but can you accept that others can make a different decision and not be "utterly ridiculous"?

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