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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#211

Post by isoprophlex »

op03 wrote: post #189
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

It's all very courageous until you try to get projects done. The EU reminds me of how the UN unravelled into irrelevance back in the 70s-80s. Lots of good intentions, cash flowed, all kinds of progressive projects were seeded but then what happened?

Strange, it seems we get plenty of projects done. Everyone on the client side is happy; Everyone on the team gets paid.

Doesn't sound too bad to me.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#212

Post by aminozuur »

CommanderData wrote: post #206
aminozuur wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>"I think it's kinda self-evident that this would be the case?" I've owned a small company in the Netherlands that employed people. At times, we had to spent lots of money on accountants and lawyers, just to find out certain rules, restrictions, strange regulations. Not even implementing, this was just the cost we payed in energy, attention and money to understand it.

Good. Regulations exist for reasons. What is your point?

That such rules often are not "self-evident".

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#213

Post by izacus »

aminozuur wrote: post #212
CommanderData wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good. Regulations exist for reasons. What is your point?

That such rules often are not "self-evident".

I'm not sure how that would prove anything or refute anything - you spent a lot of time looking at rules. Ok?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#214

Post by CalRobert »

chrisseaton wrote: post #207
gtfoutttt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

> Then the work doesn't get completed on time! Do you realise in some fields work not getting completed on time could in some cases cause people to die? Sometimes there is an emergency, and a professional saying 'sorry nope on vacation your fault for not having enough people to cover every eventuality' just isn't reasonable.

It is reasonable. The buck stops somewhere. If you're on call sure but there are rules around that.

Don't guilt people who happen to have lifesaving jobs for taking vacations.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#215

Post by buran77 »

Hamuko wrote: post #182
colejohnson66 wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(in America) There’s no such this as “overtime” in most salaried jobs though. You’re paid just for being an employee, not for hours worked. Whether you work 35 or 60 hours, it’s the same pay.[a] As a result, employers don’t have to worry about overtime pay, only burnt out employees (but entry and junior levels are disposable, right? /s) [a]: This also leads to the employer expecting one to be “on call” 24/7 regardles…

> There’s no such this as “overtime” in most salaried jobs though. You’re paid just for being an employee, not for hours worked. If there's no concept of overtime in most salaried jobs, there's a problem with your country as well. I'm a salaried, full-time employee and I'm paid to work 37.5 hours a week, no more, no less. And the collective agreement for IT services industry (which is what concerns me as a developer)…

I think the problem is usually overtime is interpreted as time doing extra work, not time to finish the work you were expected to finish anyway. The company can claim you were unproductive and probably has an easier time proving this that you have proving otherwise.

Most companies try to extract the most value from their employees and this may mean overloading them and they use "industry benchmarks" to set the bar for what you're expected to deliver. Those are very debatable but effective in supporting their point.

Then in the bulk of the push comes from incentivizing people to do overtime by offering promotions, bonuses, good projects only to those who go above and beyond. Refusing overtime may not only be received with a lack of incentives but with concrete disincentives like getting the really nasty activities and treatment. If you're building a career, want the position, or want/need the higher pay, you'll do it. Depends on the company, the job, the person.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#216

Post by Majestic121 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #207
gtfoutttt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

> Then the work doesn't get completed on time! Do you realise in some fields work not getting completed on time could in some cases cause people to die? Sometimes there is an emergency, and a professional saying 'sorry nope on vacation your fault for not having enough people to cover every eventuality' just isn't reasonable.

> Do you realise in some fields work not getting completed on time could in some cases cause people to die?

I'm sure there are jobs where this is true. I'm also sure it's not for 99.9% of people here.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#217

Post by dbetteridge »

chrisseaton wrote: post #207
gtfoutttt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

> Then the work doesn't get completed on time! Do you realise in some fields work not getting completed on time could in some cases cause people to die? Sometimes there is an emergency, and a professional saying 'sorry nope on vacation your fault for not having enough people to cover every eventuality' just isn't reasonable.

Of course its reasonable...

It may not be the decision people will make, it may be an ethical quagmire etc etc but you can't just expect people to keep working past their limits forever.

There need to be reasonable bounds.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#218

Post by claudeganon »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #177
tcldr wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. Do you think it's a coincidence they get such a bad press?

At least in America, a good portion of it is a cultural difference. The EU tends to take worker protections more seriously without considering collateral damage (according to some). OTOH, America just does nothing because there’s an entire political party who’s big premise is “any and all regulation is bad regulation.”

There's a bipartisan consensus that working people should be screwed. Uber's c-suite is staffed by Democratic Party insiders and they just got Prop 22 passed, Democratic leaders just came out in support of a stimulus bill that indemnifies companies against COVID-related harms they place their employees in to keep making money. You can find no shortage of well-paid liberals on this site that will tell you that unions are the scourge of the earth, despite their political influence being responsible for just about everything that makes the EU a better place for workers.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#219

Post by wallwart »

d33 wrote: post #105

> To date, workers in Germany can only write off work costs at home if they can prove they have one room in their household dedicated solely to work. How does one prove they don't use the room for anything else? Webcam recording throughout the month? Also, this kind of deduction favors the rich as the poor can't afford having one room just for that.

In theory one can say they use 25% of their bedroom or living room for work, and hope that the tax man is lenient enough to accept that. But then you also need to submit the floor plan or square footage measurements in order to get something deducted from your rent/utilities. And probably pay someone to do all this for you due to the huge number of caveats. German tax law truly is something else.

Completely favors the middle class that can afford to keep one room for 'work'. One wonders if starving artists can get some tax returns for their attic shoebox ateliers.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#220

Post by stingraycharles »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #180
tcldr wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. Do you think it's a coincidence they get such a bad press?

As an European I can tell you that Europeans feel completely disconnected from those EU politicians, they do whatever they please and there is no real input from anyone. The isolated themselves and then force countries into submission via monetary fines if they don't get in line.

There are a lot of statements in your comment, some of them are correct — I really do feel that there is a lack of awareness of the EU, how it’s organized, and what they do. But I do not think they do as they please without any input, etc.
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