Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

m.dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 540 posts

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#171

Post by slykar »

jbverschoor wrote: post #143
IshKebab wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As does the UK. You can write off £6/week saving you a whopping £100 over the year (assuming lower rate tax). Better than nothing at least!

I meant that employers get fined if they email you outside working hours. And I heard some companies simply delete email outside working hours.

What is considered "working hours" if you have flex time? This sounds utterly ridiculous. It's not like people have Alexa hooked up to company email screaming and flashing their lights at night when they receive a new company email.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#172

Post by olalonde »

vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people.

That's very debatable. It will probably have unintended consequences like lowering salaries, increasing the intensity of workload during permissible hours, outsourcing or entirely eliminating some types of jobs. Ultimately, it just reduces the pool of possible arrangements between employers and employees. I know a few people who would readily give up their "right to disconnect" for a more interesting job or a higher salary for example.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#173

Post by maxerickson »

refurb wrote: post #139
MereInterest wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with that, so long as there is also a reasonable amount of vacation time. The US really needs to get with the times and have basic workers' rights. Currently, the average number of vacation days per year in the US (17 days), is less than the statutory minimum number of days in many countries. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/statista-how-far-behind-us-i...

So looking at UK labor law, do bank holidays count? "An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave." https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights Because if so, they don't count in the US. So the US would be 17 days of vacation plus statutory holidays. At my job I get 25 days off, plus 13 statutory holidays, so 38 days a year off, paid.

US doesn't have any statutory work holidays. States don't either.

I believe they both define holidays, but it's for those directly employed, not workers in general.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#174

Post by colejohnson66 »

Hamuko wrote: post #162
bonestormii_ wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "confidence" of senior people to push back is greatly enhanced by the fact that they won't be expediently fired for doing so. And even so, plenty of senior positions suffer from this situation as well. I'm living this hell right now.

> The "confidence" of senior people to push back is greatly enhanced by the fact that they won't be expediently fired for doing so. There's a problem with your country if you can be fired for refusing overtime.

(in America) There’s no such this as “overtime” in most salaried jobs though. You’re paid just for being an employee, not for hours worked. Whether you work 35 or 60 hours, it’s the same pay.[a] As a result, employers don’t have to worry about overtime pay, only burnt out employees (but entry and junior levels are disposable, right? /s)

[a]: This also leads to the employer expecting one to be “on call” 24/7 regardless of your position.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#175

Post by allendoerfer »

Lariscus wrote: post #169
allendoerfer wrote: post #161

Protecting worker-rights was the reason why Germany's oldest democratic party SPD (and thus the base of German democracy) was founded, emerging from unions. It totally makes sense to continue to adapt those rights to changing environments. Like the proposed "off-times" while working from home. What I don't like is the tax-system getting ever more complicated. Now we are talking about a 600 € deductible for working fr…

Remove workers protections from freelancers and suddenly there are no more normal jobs available. No thanks, companies already try to game the system that way and this would only make it worse.

I agree, that you have to be careful with this. That's why I am proposing a hard threshold. You have to give a person an exceptional amount of money, but then you are free (or at least more free) to negotiate a contract.

Hindering someone to do their work, who is earning way more than an employee is one of the reason why IT and engineering salaries in Germany are so low. IT freelancers in Germany are hindered by regulation originally designed to prevent outsourcing of factory staff to the lowest bidder.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#176

Post by leetcrew »

pc86 wrote: post #125
mchusma wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in practice they are merged to avoid incentives to lie. Every org I have worked at that had separate pools there was widespread lying about being sick. Nobody really asked or cared, so in effect they are the same thing. In practice lying was incentivized, and managers that didn't want to be lied to just adopted the policy that your sick days were yours to take for any reason. I don't think this is something t…

This is why I think a better system is 1) employees get n hours of PTO; 2) sick days don't use PTO; 3) sick days are not explicitly tracked or counted. If you're not completing enough work because you're abusing pseudo-unlimited-PTO-via-sick-days, or you magically get a cold every Friday before a week off, that gets handled by your manager directly. But it doesn't make sense to penalize the 99% of employees who are r…

> If you're not completing enough work because you're abusing pseudo-unlimited-PTO-via-sick-days, or you magically get a cold every Friday before a week off, that gets handled by your manager directly. But it doesn't make sense to penalize the 99% of employees who are responsible and honest.

this just sounds like a shitty situation all around. it really sucks to suspect someone / be suspected of something that can't be conclusively proven one way or the other. if you can be fired for being sick too often at convenient times, you don't really have unlimited sick leave in practice.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#177

Post by colejohnson66 »

tcldr wrote: post #124
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. Do you think it's a coincidence they get such a bad press?

At least in America, a good portion of it is a cultural difference. The EU tends to take worker protections more seriously without considering collateral damage (according to some). OTOH, America just does nothing because there’s an entire political party who’s big premise is “any and all regulation is bad regulation.”

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#178

Post by pietrovismara »

olalonde wrote: post #172
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. That's very debatable. It will probably have unintended consequences like lowering salaries, increasing the intensity of workload during permissible hours, outsourcing or entirely eliminating some types of jobs. Ultimately, it just reduces the pool of possible arrangements between employer…

> It will probably have unintended consequences like lowering salaries, increasing the intensity of workload during permissible hours, outsourcing or entirely eliminating some types of jobs. Ultimately, it just reduces the pool of possible arrangements between employers and employees.

The exact same has been said for child labor abolition, reducing the work week to 40 hours, raising women wages and for literally every other improvement in work conditions we've conquered so far.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#179

Post by allendoerfer »

WanderPanda wrote: post #168
allendoerfer wrote: post #161

Protecting worker-rights was the reason why Germany's oldest democratic party SPD (and thus the base of German democracy) was founded, emerging from unions. It totally makes sense to continue to adapt those rights to changing environments. Like the proposed "off-times" while working from home. What I don't like is the tax-system getting ever more complicated. Now we are talking about a 600 € deductible for working fr…

I generally agree with you but I don‘t like the > I would also reduce worker-protections for the highest earners, especially freelancers. It should be for all freelancers or for none. Otherwise a situation like with the „accredited investor“ is created which is harming poorer but responsible people from taking opportunities.

What I am proposing is: Keep everything for employees/freelancers < top 5%. If you earn more, you are obviously not being exploited, so there is no danger of false self-employment you have to be protected from.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#180

Post by OneGuy123 »

tcldr wrote: post #124
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. Do you think it's a coincidence they get such a bad press?

As an European I can tell you that Europeans feel completely disconnected from those EU politicians, they do whatever they please and there is no real input from anyone. The isolated themselves and then force countries into submission via monetary fines if they don't get in line.
Post reply on HN