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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#181

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jeromenerf wrote: post #68
hawktheslayer wrote: post #11

I also see the opposite impact both for me and my staff. It's very difficult to say no to the constant demands of children at home and the lack of physical distance makes it hard for me to concentrate on my work during regular work hours.

My father gets upset with this depiction. I don’t have children, so I can’t have a good feel of how much of a boomer rant it is. His point was that my sister and I were not difficult to manage, while he was working at home. He was just telling us to leave him alone and play outside. Or play legos in our rooms. The happy 80s. I hear from my friends that working from home with kids is not manageable in a flat. Possible…

You played with lego for your entire childhood, no education at all?

Personally I love homeschooling (ie teaching my kids out of a school environment), but kids wither without educational input and intellectual nurturing. You can expect a kid to develop well without educational input shut in a room by themselves for weeks on end, even if their parents can afford lego.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#182

Post by Hamuko »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #174
Hamuko wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "confidence" of senior people to push back is greatly enhanced by the fact that they won't be expediently fired for doing so. There's a problem with your country if you can be fired for refusing overtime.

(in America) There’s no such this as “overtime” in most salaried jobs though. You’re paid just for being an employee, not for hours worked. Whether you work 35 or 60 hours, it’s the same pay.[a] As a result, employers don’t have to worry about overtime pay, only burnt out employees (but entry and junior levels are disposable, right? /s) [a]: This also leads to the employer expecting one to be “on call” 24/7 regardles…

>There’s no such this as “overtime” in most salaried jobs though. You’re paid just for being an employee, not for hours worked.

If there's no concept of overtime in most salaried jobs, there's a problem with your country as well.

I'm a salaried, full-time employee and I'm paid to work 37.5 hours a week, no more, no less. And the collective agreement for IT services industry (which is what concerns me as a developer) dictates that 40 hours/week is the maximum.

If you want to read our collective agreement, you can find it here: https://tietoala.fi/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/TES__englanti... Working hours are on page 19 (21 on the PDF).

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#183

Post by treis »

vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload.

If you ban work from home doesn't that mean those people have to stay at the office 1-2 hours longer to do their work?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#184

Post by sleavey »

allendoerfer wrote: post #161

Protecting worker-rights was the reason why Germany's oldest democratic party SPD (and thus the base of German democracy) was founded, emerging from unions. It totally makes sense to continue to adapt those rights to changing environments. Like the proposed "off-times" while working from home. What I don't like is the tax-system getting ever more complicated. Now we are talking about a 600 € deductible for working fr…

+1 for the point about the complexity of the German tax code. As a foreigner it's even worse for me, given the frequent use of German words never encountered in every day language. When the majority of people either ignore it or employ an accountant to do their taxes for them, the system is broken. I came from the UK where it's relatively simple and basically automatic if you're not self employed.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#185

Post by CommanderData »

tolbish wrote: post #136
MereInterest wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with that, so long as there is also a reasonable amount of vacation time. The US really needs to get with the times and have basic workers' rights. Currently, the average number of vacation days per year in the US (17 days), is less than the statutory minimum number of days in many countries. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/statista-how-far-behind-us-i...

Wait until you find out how many days per year the US mandates for parental leave. I'll save you the suspense. The number is zero.

I'm less inclined to listen when people argue eroding or reducing workers rights when they are from the US.

It seems the general consensus there is regulation = evil and bad. Anyone who advocates such must be a communist.

Not at all suggest your comment is doing this.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#186

Post by fmfam »

slykar wrote: post #160
fmfam wrote: post #12

I've been working from home for 15 years and such articles make me laughing. Media simply try to fill the vacuum they are in and their efforts are simply ridiculous.

I kind of feel you, but those people are new to this (employers and employees). They have no idea what they are doing, they are scared and they want someone to resolve this issue for them. Any experienced person just turns off their phone or snoozes notifications. People have flex working hours and some co-workers send me messages at 1 am. Should they go to jail or what? Everything could be solved with a little bit o…

You know, I could tell a lot about self-organisation, how to arrange things, and how to make your wife and children think you're absent when they see you working in the dinning room. But you're right, people en masse are new to this.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#187

Post by alkonaut »

OneGuy123 wrote: post #180
tcldr wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. Do you think it's a coincidence they get such a bad press?

As an European I can tell you that Europeans feel completely disconnected from those EU politicians, they do whatever they please and there is no real input from anyone. The isolated themselves and then force countries into submission via monetary fines if they don't get in line.

As another european, I don't agree (Just so we are clear that there are obviously differences here).

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#188

Post by tboyd47 »

bobthechef wrote: post #165
gtfoutttt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

While I sympathize with the need to push back on bad management, the situation is a bit like being between a rock (bad management) and a hard place (unions). Tyranny of the few vs. tyranny of the majority or the mob. The latter is worse. It's also kind of a mediocre bandaid for deeper social problems. An employer that can get away with asking you to do unreasonable amounts of work, work ridiculous hours, or achieve i…

That's an amazing quote.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#189

Post by op03 »

vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

It's all very courageous until you try to get projects done.

The EU reminds me of how the UN unravelled into irrelevance back in the 70s-80s. Lots of good intentions, cash flowed, all kinds of progressive projects were seeded but then what happened?

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#190

Post by jchrisa »

bobthechef wrote: post #165
gtfoutttt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

While I sympathize with the need to push back on bad management, the situation is a bit like being between a rock (bad management) and a hard place (unions). Tyranny of the few vs. tyranny of the majority or the mob. The latter is worse. It's also kind of a mediocre bandaid for deeper social problems. An employer that can get away with asking you to do unreasonable amounts of work, work ridiculous hours, or achieve i…

Solving the market failure looks like UBI. I bet a lot of people who think unions are tyranny really don't like the idea of "free money".
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