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EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

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Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#131

Post by pc86 »

MereInterest wrote: post #73
brnt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pool of sickdays? What the? Is there a pool of cancer days too?

I share your shock, and try to keep myself from feeling that the current situation in the US is either normal or ethical. To answer your question, yes, recovery from cancer would could from the pool of sick days in most places in the US. If the recovery takes more than the pool of sick days (7-9 days per year, somehow and perversely being different on average by seniority[0]), then all remaining recovery time is unpa…

Sick days are meant to be used for recovery from minor illness, not for cancer. This is why short- and long-term disability insurance exist, which pay your full salary or close to it. For example my employer pays for everyone to have ST and LT coverage up to 60 or 80% of salary (I forget which honestly) and you can purchase additional coverage which is (I think) pretax to bring that up to 100% for one or both. For example I have the partial coverage for ST but pay something like $15/mo for 100% on the LT if something were to happen to me requiring extended care. And every job I've ever had from six-figure consultant to $6.15/hr dishwasher has offered STD/LTD insurance (of varying quality, of course).

It's not nearly as barbaric as you're making it sound if you actually understand how it's supposed to used.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#132

Post by ghaff »

MereInterest wrote: post #15
CommanderData wrote: post #4

Love this. I've increasingly seen and heard employers trying to take advantage of the current situation and we need more regulation and protection for workers. People are being asked to do extra and too afraid to speak out especially with so many companies making redundancies. One area of focus for me is sickness and working from home. Sick days should be about rest and recovering both physically and mentally. Often…

Along the same lines on sick days, I think it should be forbidden for employers to merge vacation days and sick days into "PTO". Merging the pools gives an incentive for people to come to work while ill. For example, suppose somebody has 3 PTO days remaining for the year, and they are all earmarked for Christmas vacation with family. If that person catches the flu in early December, their options are (a) cancel Chris…

In practice, people can usually go into "debt." But the shared pool still encourages people to work sick rather than use what's effectively a vacation day.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#133

Post by pc86 »

brnt wrote: post #130
MereInterest wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your shock, and try to keep myself from feeling that the current situation in the US is either normal or ethical. To answer your question, yes, recovery from cancer would could from the pool of sick days in most places in the US. If the recovery takes more than the pool of sick days (7-9 days per year, somehow and perversely being different on average by seniority[0]), then all remaining recovery time is unpa…

I'm... stunned. I knew you guys had it bad with (typically) less than half the holidays that we get here, but this is a whole other level.

Unfortunately it's just not accurate. See my sibling comment.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#134

Post by avh02 »

silvester23 wrote: post #70
mikem170 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do people pretend to be sick to use up their X days? Many people want to have as many days off as they can. If so, you could be in the same situation, call in saying your sick to use all your days then really get sick at the end of the year. If the answer is no, perhaps that is due to cultural differences. It's my impression that folks in Norway are more responsible in many regards compared to Americans.

We have roughly the same regulations in Germany, in my personal experience people do not take advantage by prentending to be sick in any meaningful quantity. I mean there surely are people out there pushing it to the limit but it's not a problem in general. As for your point about really getting sick by the end of the year, as long as you have a doctor's note saying you are sick, you can stay at home, no matter how l…

I've seen minor abuse from several people, and a few sarcastic "just take a sick day for " but I still think that minor abuse is worth the peace of mind it brings to me as an employee.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#135

Post by refurb »

MereInterest wrote: post #73
brnt wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pool of sickdays? What the? Is there a pool of cancer days too?

I share your shock, and try to keep myself from feeling that the current situation in the US is either normal or ethical. To answer your question, yes, recovery from cancer would could from the pool of sick days in most places in the US. If the recovery takes more than the pool of sick days (7-9 days per year, somehow and perversely being different on average by seniority[0]), then all remaining recovery time is unpa…

At least for any job I've had in the US (middle class), one of your benefits is disability insurance (which the employer usually covers 100% of premiums) which pays you 60% of your salary if you can't work.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#136

Post by tolbish »

MereInterest wrote: post #52
maxerickson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side of it, it's nice to get the time off even if you don't get sick. Companies will tend to argue that sick time is only for when you are sick.

I'm fine with that, so long as there is also a reasonable amount of vacation time. The US really needs to get with the times and have basic workers' rights. Currently, the average number of vacation days per year in the US (17 days), is less than the statutory minimum number of days in many countries. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/statista-how-far-behind-us-i...

Wait until you find out how many days per year the US mandates for parental leave.

I'll save you the suspense. The number is zero.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#137

Post by pc86 »

thaeli wrote: post #85
maxerickson wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Context is king. We are talking about banning lumped PTO. Pretty much every company moving from lumped PTO to vacation+sick is going to make vacation smaller than the lumped PTO.

Most companies are going to use any change in leave policies to decrease total leave, if they're allowed to do so. This happened when pooled PTO became common as well - moving from, say, 10 days vacation and 10 days sick leave to 15 days PTO.

Not disputing that there are shitty companies out there, but I worked somewhere that did this exact thing (10+10 to 15) but it was explicitly said that sick days don't burn PTO. If you're sick you don't work, paid, and if it's more than 2 days in a row you need a note. Basically, treating the employees like adults.

If more companies did that people would be happier and more productive across the board.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#138

Post by Loughla »

CommanderData wrote: post #4

Love this. I've increasingly seen and heard employers trying to take advantage of the current situation and we need more regulation and protection for workers. People are being asked to do extra and too afraid to speak out especially with so many companies making redundancies. One area of focus for me is sickness and working from home. Sick days should be about rest and recovering both physically and mentally. Often…

>I've increasingly seen and heard employers trying to take advantage of the current situation

Our leadership, once they finally relented to any amount of remote work, were saying, "your time at home is considered 'on call' time".

I addressed a formal request for a pay differential, based on labor laws and the use of the words 'on call'. I stressed that I was more than willing to be on call, but I would need my pay to reflect that, legally.

Now, when I shut my PC down at 5 and shut my phone off at 5, they no longer get mad that they can't get me after hours.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#139

Post by refurb »

MereInterest wrote: post #52
maxerickson wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other side of it, it's nice to get the time off even if you don't get sick. Companies will tend to argue that sick time is only for when you are sick.

I'm fine with that, so long as there is also a reasonable amount of vacation time. The US really needs to get with the times and have basic workers' rights. Currently, the average number of vacation days per year in the US (17 days), is less than the statutory minimum number of days in many countries. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/15/statista-how-far-behind-us-i...

So looking at UK labor law, do bank holidays count?

"An employer can choose to include bank holidays as part of a worker’s statutory annual leave."

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights

Because if so, they don't count in the US. So the US would be 17 days of vacation plus statutory holidays. At my job I get 25 days off, plus 13 statutory holidays, so 38 days a year off, paid.

Re: EU pushes for 'right to disconnect' from work at home

#140

Post by jusssi »

gtfoutttt wrote: post #115
vfc1 wrote: post #106

You got to admit that the EU at least has the courage to take some controversial measures in the best interest of their people. I can't see this soon enough, I have family that answer emails in vacation all the time, that get phone calls like its nothing. I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Most ma…

>I know people that connect everyday from home to the office network to work one or two hours (extra) otherwise it's impossible to keep up with the workload. Then the work doesn't get completed on time! That's bad management not hiring enough people, not the fault of the employee. SMH y'all IT people need a union.

It's the difference between a junior and a senior. The latter has better expectations of what one can get done in an average workday, and the confidence to push back with "sorry, looks like this thing's more work than expected, going to need another two days for it".

Btw. Looks like the Great America is woke and hates you for the word 'union' you used in your comment.

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